Paulus

Lastly (I have other examples if you wish to see them, or PM me) CGS 85 (Choice UNC-BU) - my grading would be aUNC

A very warm welcome to the forum Ray! 18 months ago I was interested in discovering CGS first hand and judging them from personal experience. I visited them, witnessed their grading process, and submitted a few batches of coins. Many discussions and pics are available on this thread, including some interesting contributions from Bill Pugsley, who has many hundreds of CGS graded coins and runs the CGS Forum. TPG discussions are a hot topic here and a sub-forum for TPG threads was created a while back so that they could be visited (or avoided!) more easily. Certainly CGS are at risk of being perceived as having a conflict of interest, being part-owned (50%?) by London Coins, who sell a lot of CGS slabbed coins. Based on the pics, I would agree that it is very hard to see your example link as UNC, and I have seen many on-the-face-of-it over graded examples at LC auctions.Their early pics (<UIN 18,000 ish) leave a lot to be desired. On the topic of do they under-grade 'third-party' coins (by which I am guessing you mean coins that have not been submitted by London Coins or for sale at London Coins auctions), my personal experience is that they do not - and I do not see any incentive for them to do so. They are strict in their grading, yes, particularly by US standards (to my mind describing any coin from MS60 to MS62/3 as 'Mint State' is a bit of a joke), and they are very strict (over-strict perhaps) when it comes to cleaning, scratches, and other 'damage' - particularly for early milled and definitely for hammered. I have shared pics of the coins I have submitted to CGS on this forum before they have been graded, and asked people to 'guess the grade' that would be assigned. By and large the guesses were all within half a grade (as you would hope and expect from anyone) of what CGS assigned, with almost as many coming back higher than guessed as there were lower. Here are a few examples of coins I have submitted to CGS that were graded slightly higher than I would have expected: CGS 60 (EF) - my grading would be GVF / NEF CGS 82 (Choice UNC) - my grading would be aUNC:

Can't quite tell whether there is noticeable wear to the hair, but based on the pics GEF-AU

Well it would definitely fetch more than £5 on eBay. perhaps even £20 or more ... I am wondering what the valuation 'viewpoint' was? how much they would offer you for ithow much you would realise at auctionhow much it would cost you to replace it with one in similar conditionThese 3 valuations would differ considerably Did you have any pleasant surprises? Edit: by the way, the current bullion value is only about £1

Some stonking examples in this auction. Peck will be pleased to see that the TPGs have helpfully given their expert opinion as to the colour of the coins (Brown, Red and Brown, etc) Anything take your interest Brandon? link

Perhaps merely his hue/saturation/white balance settings coupled with the lighting conditions?

What do you mean by "Interesting colour, given that the skin colour is normalish?" ?

According to the pic in Spink, The E1 (yes Elizabeth Stu!) 'hand' mm is a left-pointing hand with 4 fingers and a thumb - wonder if this one is a tooled tun? Looks like a tun on the reverse ...

link Seller states "Hand mint mark is attributed to Elizabeth I. The rest of Elizabeths' likeness was removed and re-hammered with Charles' likeness. Very unique piece of history. All questions welcome."

That's a bit more like what I would have expected! What is the record price paid for a British coin, anyone know?

I find it strange, proof gold, Gothic crown, only 1 exists ... and one of the most admired coin designs ever ... you'd think it would be worth an absolute mega fortune, sky's the limit! But somehow, perhaps it would be worth even more if < 20 were made, 6 or so were known and then an unknown 7th came on the market What do people think? Or is there simply a limit to what any collector will pay for a coin not minted for circulation? Was only 1 ever minted in the first place? Did some get melted down? (!!!!!!!!!!)

Thanks Nick

Yes, excellent post Brandon

I have a question - what is the best way to distinguish the specimen rocking horse crown from the standard issue?

I knew I had a picture of it somewhere. Enjoy. Good grief.

Please don't shoot me down in flames, but rarity alone should not affect grading opinions and I am wondering if that is what is happening here? If this was a 1902 or 1910 shilling would we be looking at it in the same way, grading-wise? Or is there something about the 1905 issue (rarity aside) that warrants special attention (such as it is known for weak strikes)? Objectively, I would grade this coin as NEF at best, based on the pics provided, and I am assuming it should be graded equally alongside other E7 shillings. It is undoubtedly rare, and especially so in this grade, and will attract a very nice price when sold. Grade, rarity and value are closely linked, but must be considered separately to maintain any sanity, if anyone thinks I am deluded in this please correct me! Irrespective of all the above, it's a very nice example and will doubtless fetch a nice price, I just wonder if I am missing something, since your pics do not show a coin in GEF-UNC to me .. but I may be about to be corrected, which is fine!

Who are you referring to PWA? CGS?? I sense they have a backlog of a few hundred for photographing, grading and slabbing at the moment! The last verifiable number seem to be UIN 33144, yet the numbers assigned to my recent consignment begin UIN 33673. I have always found that you get UIN numbers assigned within a day or 2 of CGS receiving the coins, does your friend have UIN numbers yet? You can track progress on-line, I have made 6 small consignments in the past, all took 4-5 weeks start to end, although they quote up to 90 days. Always interested in sharing experiences with using CGS!

Agree with Peter, and becoming increasingly interested in them

Looks like it's been sold, anyone on here?

Argentum and Coins (John), many happy returns, don't see you on here much these days?

My own personal financial situation is terrible compared to 3 years ago, I meant in terms of the UK economy as a whole! We have low inflation and interest rates, growth, declining unemployment, I studied economics not politics by the way! Whether this is good for overall coin prices I am not sure, perhaps prices at the top end do better when economies are in crisis, I would love a deLorean to go back in time at bit (as would we all of course!)

My guess is that we've never had it so good (in the words of MacMillan in the early '60s), make hay while the sun shines

Well you did very well there then (as long as the postage wasn't silly!)

Obverse definitely better!

Charlie, ask as many questions on here as you wish (especially grading ones!). I find the responses are so quick normally that I can often use them to judge whether to buy a coin or not, that is imminently closing at auction! It's a common but attractive example, my grade would be aVF overall