Paulus

Yes, it's a real shame! However, if the reverse was anything like the obverse, it would never have made it onto the market in my lifetime. The Sword's an uncommon mark too, to have the mark, and a good reverse strike combined, would've been a jewel to be held.That's a potentially obvious, but sometimes ignored point Stuart, if the coin was more perfect, you would never have acquired it, because it might never have come to market or have been too expensive for your budget at the time ... can't we kind of say the same for all the coins in our collections?

Here's the link Rob, some nice bits in my opinion, particularly the James I shilling: http://www.ebay.co.u...=p2047675.l2562 Stuart says he is listing some more this evening

Of course, I knew you were just throwing ideas at it, young Paulus! I do appreciate it, you know! ❤️ And, by the way, your C1 shilling is full-on eye candy, one of the most pleasingly balanced reverses I've seen, really nice die! I couldn't say so on the 2014 thread, just in case TG was looking in, you know what he's like? Oh yes, poor Richard is well compromised ... on the one hand he is pleased that hammered and especially C1 is increasingly popular on this Forum, on the other he doesn't want competition for any rarities / niceties that may appear ... a common dilemma with all collectors who want to share on-line perhaps? Only teasing TG!

I was just guessing why some people might not like private listings, it doesn't bother me in the slightest!

I know it's not popular with some, PWA, but it's something I've always done since selling driftwood, and historical artefact design, ideas (amongst others, and a lot of years ago, now) that were very often picked-up and replicated when eBay was in its infancy! I don't blame anyone for that, I used to surf eBay all the time, looking for ingenious ideas too. I'd trawl through others' feedback and go 'wow, £50 for that? And look, £62 for that one?' Etc.Also, whilst on this occasion I forgot to watermark my images with sales@george-coins.co.uk (which I usually do), I'd say I'm pretty much transparent, and most people are able to find and contact me if they desired? I'm not sure why it would put anyone off, although I've heard it does, as any purchaser gets a chance to look at feedback comments, business information of the seller, etc. etc. Ah, well! Actually, you've got me thinking now...why does it put people off? I don't really know (if not private), but maybe it helps identify shilling activity, and you can sometimes identify the bidder from his/her abbreviated eBay id, if you have made a note of some of them previously? Also, you can tell how many unique bidders there are, on a non-private listing ...

Carry on Collecting Peter

I have lost all interest in these most recent modern decimal commems, to me they have no numismatic interest whatsoever, with very few exceptions

I don't understand? If you're going to keep the coin in a slab, where is the enjoyment of looking at it through a scuffed slab? Absolutely, and we know presentation counts for a lot, it doesn't cost a lot just to have a coin re-entombed (by the same TPG)

I believe that's the only reason they did it, yes, a shame

Rob's absolutely right of course, it's unfortunate that for me (and others I'm sure) such adjustment marks detract from the eye appeal ... I don't imagine they were too bothered about it at the time!

I agree with all of these points, especially that TPGs should regard cabinet friction and bag marks as wear, I really don't care how it occurred after it was struck, it is wear. And many MS60-61 coins, as I have alluded to in another post, require quite a leap of faith to be seen as Mint State, even given the dubious latitude of conveniently categorising some wear as 'non-circulation' wear ... my opinion! I just prefer to take a coin at face value, comments from sellers and dealers such as 'small scratch across the face that doesn't detract' (okay an extreme example!) wind me up and smack of estate agent style listings!

I start with eye appeal ... after that I care little whether the state of the coin I am considering acquiring is in the state it is due to circulation, weak strikes, cabinet fiction, bag marks, etc etc, I just decide whether I like the look of the coin, and will enjoy owning and handling it. That does present challenges for some issues!

I'm with Peck on this one

And he still does copies of the 1933, and others: http://www.garyphelps.co.uk/

Optimistic?

His second post was almost word perfect! Seriously though Morpheus (if you're still reading these posts), the advice given is correct unless amongst your Kgs you have some coins that are close to 'as they left the Mint'

Happy birthday!

Sounds about right to me!

That book is universally recommended Arthur!

Yes, where 2 grades are given the obverse is always given first. But where only a single grade is given, as is very often the case, how is it arrived at if the obverse and reverse grade differently? So you see it as a straight average Stuart?

Something else I often question relates to Arthur's question about his C2 HC, where he feels the grades are significantly different on the obverse and reverse. There is very often only one single grade proffered by dealers, sellers, TPGs, auction houses etc ... ff only a single grade is to be assigned, should it be the lower of the two sides, some kind of average, or something else? I have heard that the obverse grade is given a higher weighting when 'averaging out' the 2 sides, but I don't know if that is common practice?

Lastly (I have other examples if you wish to see them, or PM me) CGS 85 (Choice UNC-BU) - my grading would be aUNC

A very warm welcome to the forum Ray! 18 months ago I was interested in discovering CGS first hand and judging them from personal experience. I visited them, witnessed their grading process, and submitted a few batches of coins. Many discussions and pics are available on this thread, including some interesting contributions from Bill Pugsley, who has many hundreds of CGS graded coins and runs the CGS Forum. TPG discussions are a hot topic here and a sub-forum for TPG threads was created a while back so that they could be visited (or avoided!) more easily. Certainly CGS are at risk of being perceived as having a conflict of interest, being part-owned (50%?) by London Coins, who sell a lot of CGS slabbed coins. Based on the pics, I would agree that it is very hard to see your example link as UNC, and I have seen many on-the-face-of-it over graded examples at LC auctions.Their early pics (<UIN 18,000 ish) leave a lot to be desired. On the topic of do they under-grade 'third-party' coins (by which I am guessing you mean coins that have not been submitted by London Coins or for sale at London Coins auctions), my personal experience is that they do not - and I do not see any incentive for them to do so. They are strict in their grading, yes, particularly by US standards (to my mind describing any coin from MS60 to MS62/3 as 'Mint State' is a bit of a joke), and they are very strict (over-strict perhaps) when it comes to cleaning, scratches, and other 'damage' - particularly for early milled and definitely for hammered. I have shared pics of the coins I have submitted to CGS on this forum before they have been graded, and asked people to 'guess the grade' that would be assigned. By and large the guesses were all within half a grade (as you would hope and expect from anyone) of what CGS assigned, with almost as many coming back higher than guessed as there were lower. Here are a few examples of coins I have submitted to CGS that were graded slightly higher than I would have expected: CGS 60 (EF) - my grading would be GVF / NEF CGS 82 (Choice UNC) - my grading would be aUNC:

Can't quite tell whether there is noticeable wear to the hair, but based on the pics GEF-AU

Well it would definitely fetch more than £5 on eBay. perhaps even £20 or more ... I am wondering what the valuation 'viewpoint' was? how much they would offer you for ithow much you would realise at auctionhow much it would cost you to replace it with one in similar conditionThese 3 valuations would differ considerably Did you have any pleasant surprises? Edit: by the way, the current bullion value is only about £1