Paulus

Some stonking examples in this auction. Peck will be pleased to see that the TPGs have helpfully given their expert opinion as to the colour of the coins (Brown, Red and Brown, etc) Anything take your interest Brandon? link

Perhaps merely his hue/saturation/white balance settings coupled with the lighting conditions?

What do you mean by "Interesting colour, given that the skin colour is normalish?" ?

According to the pic in Spink, The E1 (yes Elizabeth Stu!) 'hand' mm is a left-pointing hand with 4 fingers and a thumb - wonder if this one is a tooled tun? Looks like a tun on the reverse ...

link Seller states "Hand mint mark is attributed to Elizabeth I. The rest of Elizabeths' likeness was removed and re-hammered with Charles' likeness. Very unique piece of history. All questions welcome."

That's a bit more like what I would have expected! What is the record price paid for a British coin, anyone know?

I find it strange, proof gold, Gothic crown, only 1 exists ... and one of the most admired coin designs ever ... you'd think it would be worth an absolute mega fortune, sky's the limit! But somehow, perhaps it would be worth even more if < 20 were made, 6 or so were known and then an unknown 7th came on the market What do people think? Or is there simply a limit to what any collector will pay for a coin not minted for circulation? Was only 1 ever minted in the first place? Did some get melted down? (!!!!!!!!!!)

Thanks Nick

Yes, excellent post Brandon

I have a question - what is the best way to distinguish the specimen rocking horse crown from the standard issue?

I knew I had a picture of it somewhere. Enjoy. Good grief.

Please don't shoot me down in flames, but rarity alone should not affect grading opinions and I am wondering if that is what is happening here? If this was a 1902 or 1910 shilling would we be looking at it in the same way, grading-wise? Or is there something about the 1905 issue (rarity aside) that warrants special attention (such as it is known for weak strikes)? Objectively, I would grade this coin as NEF at best, based on the pics provided, and I am assuming it should be graded equally alongside other E7 shillings. It is undoubtedly rare, and especially so in this grade, and will attract a very nice price when sold. Grade, rarity and value are closely linked, but must be considered separately to maintain any sanity, if anyone thinks I am deluded in this please correct me! Irrespective of all the above, it's a very nice example and will doubtless fetch a nice price, I just wonder if I am missing something, since your pics do not show a coin in GEF-UNC to me .. but I may be about to be corrected, which is fine!

Who are you referring to PWA? CGS?? I sense they have a backlog of a few hundred for photographing, grading and slabbing at the moment! The last verifiable number seem to be UIN 33144, yet the numbers assigned to my recent consignment begin UIN 33673. I have always found that you get UIN numbers assigned within a day or 2 of CGS receiving the coins, does your friend have UIN numbers yet? You can track progress on-line, I have made 6 small consignments in the past, all took 4-5 weeks start to end, although they quote up to 90 days. Always interested in sharing experiences with using CGS!

Agree with Peter, and becoming increasingly interested in them

Argentum and Coins (John), many happy returns, don't see you on here much these days?

Looks like it's been sold, anyone on here?

My own personal financial situation is terrible compared to 3 years ago, I meant in terms of the UK economy as a whole! We have low inflation and interest rates, growth, declining unemployment, I studied economics not politics by the way! Whether this is good for overall coin prices I am not sure, perhaps prices at the top end do better when economies are in crisis, I would love a deLorean to go back in time at bit (as would we all of course!)

My guess is that we've never had it so good (in the words of MacMillan in the early '60s), make hay while the sun shines

Well you did very well there then (as long as the postage wasn't silly!)

Obverse definitely better!

Charlie, ask as many questions on here as you wish (especially grading ones!). I find the responses are so quick normally that I can often use them to judge whether to buy a coin or not, that is imminently closing at auction! It's a common but attractive example, my grade would be aVF overall

This topic is little more than me 'thinking out loud', and will come as nothing new to the experienced dealers and collectors on this brilliant Forum. I hope it is useful to some readers however. It is important to factor in the total cost of buying a coin at auction, since the 'hammer price' will be subject to commission + VAT, and postage, Buyers' commission varies from zero on platforms such as eBay, to up to 20% + VAT (so 24%) at traditional 'bricks and mortar' auctions such as DNW, ST James, London Coins, etc. Sellers' commission varies from 10% on eBay to up to 20% + VAT (so 24%) at traditional 'bricks and mortar' auctions. So, working on the 20% + VAT scenario (for both buying and selling), buying one or more lots at auction and selling them at a later date at an auction with the same fees, would require a mark-up of 62.5% on the hammer price, just to break even. This 62.5% 'mark-up' would apply to all lots bought and sold at auctions charging you 20% + VAT for buying and selling, and excludes P&P. Factoring in P&P costs, let's say £10 to have the winning lot sent to you, and £8 to send to auction for selling, then a single coin you bought at auction for £200 hammer would need to sell at a similar auction for £350 hammer just to get your money back!! And that doesn't take account of the cost of having your money tied up in the meantime, however you decide to account for that, (if at all). My workings (if they are wrong please shout)! Some logical questions and observations follow: If buying a coin to sell (in the short-term as a dealer, the medium-term as a collector who anticipates upgrading, or the longer term as an investment) it is vital to be aware of the 'hit' involved if buying at auctionBuying at coin fairs (much recommended) avoids all ancillary costs (travel apart), allows you to engage/negotiate with the seller, and will inevitably result in making contact with other collectorsTo what extent do people think that this 'built-in' 'inflation' to coin prices at auction contributes to the jaw-dropping hammered prices we are seeing for the top end at Heritage (for example)?I am relatively new to (serious) coin collecting (6 years now!) (by which I mean >10% of my spare time and >5% of my residual income (after bills etc) is spent on the hobby), am I right in thinking that 20% + VAT has been in place for the established auction houses for many years?I would imagine that a dealer that deals with an auction house on a regular basis would be able to negotiate the 20% down by quite a bit - otherwise it's a killer isn't it?I wonder if everyone appreciates that the 'dream' coin they have just won at auction would need to fetch > 62.5% hammer at the same auction house for them to break even (P&P aside) if they needed to sell it - reminds me of the 'hit' when driving a brand new car off the forecourt!Very interested in any responses

For me, both points are well made and contributors possibly coming from different standpoints. BRG, your coin posts and photography are second to none! For the record, I would like to share Peck's surprise at NGC's grade of AU details ... it's irrelevant how rare the coin is, or what damage there is to result in a full grade not being assigned ... the point is, in no way, shape or form could anyone consider this coin to be AU, surely? I think that is the point he was making!

My preferred option by far is at a coin fair, no postage, no commission, deal with the seller face to face. Yes, he (or she) is a dealer with profits and overheads to consider, but if you know the value of the coin you are after, and the price you are prepared to pay, it should be a level playing field.

I started a response to this and my browser crashed, sorry ... I will make a few observations, but I am not able to compare to the collector of yesteryear without research, and I suspect that you have already done that Rob! At the top end, I think many collectors (including myself) will consider themselves completely priced out of the market. For me, anything over £1k for a single coin is out of the question, which rules out most of the very top stuff. The inflation in prices for the most desirable coins seems to continue unabatedI would guess that for the average wage earner today certain coin prices are cheaper than they have ever been, relative to salary ... including Roman, hammered, and late G5 and G6 silver in particularSilver bullion price is at its lowest for 3-4 years which will help low grade collectorsThe internet has of course opened up the world of coin supply to coin demandThere is much less opportunity (in this country at least) to squirrel away collectable coins from change, than there was from our predecessorsThe availability of coins (via the internet) is surely at an all-time highNumber of collectors relative to past times, I have no idea! There are more and more coins being listed on-line than ever before, and we get lots of new members on the Forum, but serious collectors who join and attend clubs, attendance at coin fairs, I have no idea!Other Forum members will have far better insights I am sure!