Paulus

The most honest descriptions from an on-line dealer web site in my experience come from our very own Rob, who I never hesitate to recommend and I have never been disappointed with any of my purchases from him! He just never "bigs" up a coin at all, simply accurately and consistently grades it, with good scans, and points out all the defects! Sadly the same cannot be said for every coin dealer I have done business with.

Rob, I get the brain, eyes and heart bit. But in fairness to CGS I don't think they have told us we must like it. Isn't the whole idea to present a consistent numerical grading system. Now that's where I think it falls down in terms of eye appeal etc. For my liking it's just a little to clinical. I would like to know do others think it's working? In other words are three graders or whatever achieving the consistency they are aiming for? Mark Mark I visited CGS in Kent last year and they were very accommodating. One of their graders (who was not a dealer) spent 2 hours with me going through their grading process and answering my many questions. The detail is in the TPG... sub-forum. If anyone fancies doing the same I believe you would be welcomed, their 'benchmark' coins are a joy to hold/behold. I have submitted around 50 coins to CGS over the last 2 years (I did say 70 the other day but I was wrong), mainly either for authentication or in the hope of realising a higher price when selling (which I believe I have, although it is impossible to be certain). The only coins I have bought slabbed are those that I have deemed to be under-priced for various reasons, including under-graded, mis-attributed, or rejected for too-harsh reasons. With only 30-something thousand coins graded, their population reports are worthless for many years/denominations/varieties, but their database is a valuable resource (you don't have to have submitted a coin for grading to access this). Their pics in the early years are poor (or their grading was lax, or both) but on the whole I have found them to be strict but consistent. Their invention of a 1-100 grading scale was/is a risky strategy, and they don't assign two-thirds of the available numbers to any coins they assess. They have done me 2 massive favours over the years in rejecting expensive suspected fake coins I then could send back to the dealers/auction houses for a refund, without that backing I would have struggled. I agree there is a real and present conflict of interest between CGS and their major shareholder London Coins, the conflict does not go away just because they declare it or the same people work for both businesses. I have many more pros and cons comments from my experience with them, I think I know how and when to use them/buy/sell CGS coins, or not! Edit - eye appeal and strike are both taken in to account in their grading process

Just to throw in another point, with some coins I find it difficult to assess the grade from the pics/scans alone (even if they are high resolution and good quality, you often only get 2 pics from a dealer or an auction catalogue). If you have the coin in hand you can tilt it to the light at various angles, which reveals different toning and, very often, highlights where the wear or any dings and scratches may be, which may not be evident in the supplied pics. And you can see the edge, which is often not pictured at all!

Blimey yes, I'll second that!!

Maybe try looking for a table top tripod, John. Mine cost me abut £12. Declan Could you point me in the way of your table top tripod.? Will it take a DSLR or compact only.I have both with macro.? Thanx Peter Mine (1970s) is KAISER make - I saw recently they're still in business. Worth a Google? I got one of these from my local Jessops some time ago - perfect for coins and great value IMO: http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/products/jessops/micro-tripod-76393/show.html

Likewise, joined 1st July and effectively got 13 months' membership, it's been great - there are some tremendous places around me (Surrey/Sussex/Kent)

Good con indeed! Let's hope no-one falls for it ...

That's stonking Dave, extremely attractive and high grade imo - not my area but I will have a guess that the experts might some up with NEF overall?

Partly as a reaction to all the copper / bronze / penny posts on this forum in the last few days I think we need some ESC! Sadly I might sell this coin, it is my best example of the type that I have left. It has proof-like fields and gorgeous toning when tilted to the light at various angles, most of which I haven't managed to capture on camera. The grade is surely EF or higher, what are people's thoughts? Can you spot any problems that I haven't? (It looks problem-free to me, it is a standard LIX with stops btw) ... what do people think this might be graded on the US 1-70 Sheldon scale or the CGS 1-100 scale based on the pics below?

Can someone explain why Pobjoy Mint issues are collectable to some? Are they the modern equivalent of Ashmore repros? e.g. link

Unbelievable quality pics as usual!

Do Tell John from Oz I'm standing well back .....

I think probably the first - there's more contrast and therefore relief, and there isn't the flash reflection. Thanks Peck, there is no flash involved, what you are seeing is the toned proof-like fields reflecting the light

Thanks Peck, I was also wondering whether anyone had any comments to make about the difference in the two sets of pics, given the very minor difference in set up - which set of pics would make you more inclined to bid, if this was on your wants list?

There's about 30 Pages plus dedicated to slabs amd grading. 99% of people are of the opinion that they'd rather feel a coin than a plastic slab. Paul i believe slabs his coins before selling as he believes that he'll achieve a higher price when listed on ebay (correct me of i'm wrong Paul). I'm not sure if Paul actually has any coins in his own collection that has been slabbed by CGS, again you can correct me Paul.Personally, its each to their own how they want to keep their coins, it's just not for me or a majority here, it's mostly Americans that go in for that and expect afterwards that the same coin should quadruple in value because of what the slab says, but as we've seen mamy many times American TPGs cannot grade British coins correctly, nor identify them or fakes properly. Just saying You are largely correct Dave, I have had some of my coins slabbed by CGS for selling if I believe they will be more attractive to prospective buyers, not just on eBay but private sales also. This has worked extremely well overall, and works best on EF or better later milled English silver and GVF or better early milled. You need to be fairly sure of the grade, and that the coin won't be rejected, before sending for slabbing of course - out of about 70 coins I have sent to CGS, around 10% have been rejected, and there have been roughly the same number of pleasant surprises as disappointments when it comes to grading. The average cost of having these coins graded, including postage, has been £16 per coin, and the average turnaround time has been 3.9 weeks. The results can vary of course, especially at auction, but can be quite dramatic. Two very recent examples include a standard issue 1893 florin I bought for £90 from a well known dealer and sold privately for £300, and a 1905 sixpence I bought on eBay for £13 and sold on eBay for £170. I am not looking to become a dealer or treat my hobby as an investment or a profit-making activity, but results such as these help to iron out those 'mistakes', and of course postage and auction commission costs. I have around 20 slabbed coins in my collection that are currently 'keepers' (if that's not an oxymoron!) If anyone is interested in more detail on my CGS 'journey' please PM me Or, if of more general interest, happy to reveal more detail in the TPG thread ...

That's about where I have it Peter, it's been a keeper for a while due to its tremendous eye appeal 'in-hand'. I don't think it's been cleaned either, but it does have very faint hairlines and some obverse marks. One thing that has always struck me is how different a coin can look in the very slightest of different lights. Very often with distance buying you only get 2 pics of a coin to judge its grade/eye appeal/problems by, but the photography is everything. My photography has improved but still has some way to go to get to BRG's standard (the best I have seen on this forum). Some eBay sellers are very fond of choosing lighting effects which show the coin off to its best advantage (for obvious reasons), which can often fail to show some defects (I am not suggesting they have doctored the images in any way, which I would regard as rogue trader practice, if not fraudulent). Here is the same coin, these pics are taken with the same camera using the same settings and the same (indoor) lighting set up. The only adjustment to the pics is that they have been cropped and resized to about 500 pixels. The only difference between these and the pics in the OP is that the coin has been tilted very very slightly. Any comments?

Please do, one of my favourite topics! Peter is it? There is a sub-forum (TPG (Third Party Graders) discussions under British Coin Related Discussions ...) - some members are interested, and some not so! Or PM me

Thanks Rob, that would not be for me, at least not at the price they go for! Why don't they do a 1933! (Not that I'd be interested in that either, not into pennies, thank goodness, given all the micro varieties and high prices!)

Welcome Jason and Erin, I can confirm your initial impressions, this really is a great forum full of genuine people willing to give free and very expert advice. Enjoy the hobby!

Still strapped for cash, so sadly parting with some more milled silver. This batch I have deemed worth getting slabbed, anticipating that the extra cost involved will be more than recouped in higher-than-otherwise selling prices - my experience with this over the last 15 months or so gives me confidence that that will be the case. Some will go to eBay, others may be private sales. So once again I invite your comments and speculation as to the CGS grade they might assign, traditional non-numeric grade if you prefer, varieties, problems that might result in rejection, or anything at all! Coin 1 - 1902 proof half crown

I have in my collection this very acceptable (imo) Matt Proof (imo) shilling. It is slabbed by CGS as AU but with 'field damage', they don't give any details ... can anyone spot any problems with it?

This is CGS 26028:

Good Fine (GF) at best for me. This has nothing to do with the rarity of the coin, I try and keep that separate. There are different grading guidelines for early milled (1662-1815) as opposed to milled (1816 onwards), and certainly US grading differs from UK grading quite significantly, and often places more of a premium on toning. I'm afraid to say that the coin in the pics would not attract many collectors as it is not scarce, and in that grade would not be worth much more than £20-£30

absobloodylutely reiterate all of the above comments and more!