NewShillingCollector

Located in the USA, we are new to this area of collecting and it was suggested that we post our info in this forum. We are seeking an opinion / value of an 1850/46 G Britain Victoria Shilling that we had graded in March 2012 by NGC. Our inquiries began when we questioned NGC about the value of the coin since we could not find any current or past sales. Their catalog valued it at the same amount as an 1850 which was confusing since we found no basis for the value itself. They referred us to the editors of the Standard Value World Coins. Sequence (abbreviated): --March 2012 we sent the raw coin to NGC for grading noting that it could be an 1850/49, but we lacked the proper equipment. They disagreed and returned it as an 1850/46. --We subsequently were told that SPINK had removed it from their catalog, saying in effect that it does not exist, it is an 1850/46. --SCWC basically follows whatever SPINK publishes. --NGC has stated they stand behind their grade and determination when we contacted them. --SPINK disagrees with NGC. --CNG, London, USA stated that it is what NGC states it is. It is documented and it does not matter what..... --It is of course in Seaby's edition of ESC as an ESC1296A, as an R4 rating with only 11-20 known to exist. --Several major auction houses would like us to auction the coin with them, both here in the USA and in the UK, both online and "on the floor". --In just one of our contacts, it was stated: "I knew Alan Rayner well and I have no doubt that if the listing 1850/46 survived several editions then he had seen it. .........I know that when new editions were revised........ dealers were heard to say “ I have never seen this, I do not believe it really existsâ€. Thus elusive coins, perhaps under-rated by Alan’s cautious approach until his initial views were confirmed, could be deleted. As you say it sounds as they have found another over-date and mistakenly replaced the old entry instead of adding a new one............................................................." Any and all input would be greatly appreciated!!!! Of course we believe that we have an extremely valuable one of a kind coin that will eventually be sold for a considerable amount. But for now we will research and keep it safely off-site. Please note that as soon as possible we will post pictures that will taken with proper equipment. If you would like some pics that we do have, please send us your email address and we will be happy to send them to you. We tried to post some, but they exceeded the limit no matter how small we made them! Thank you, NewUKCollector

I agree....thank you!

A back-handed compliment is a compliment diguised as an insult!!! Us trying to insult people on the forum??? Absolutely not!!! It was recommended to us that we post the information and the pictures on this forum. We are not "posters" and did not even know the forum existed until a few days prior to our posting here. I think Stuart was saying it's kinda flattering to be asked for our views, when you already knew what Spink thought! Yes, I know that now.....I took it the wrong way, as if it were towards us. My mistake and many apologies to him and the rest of the forum! At least you know for sure now: this is really our first forum....ever!!! Everyone have a great week!!

A back-handed compliment is a compliment diguised as an insult!!! Us trying to insult people on the forum??? Absolutely not!!! It was recommended to us that we post the information and the pictures on this forum. We are not "posters" and did not even know the forum existed until a few days prior to our posting here. I think Stuart was saying it's kinda flattering to be asked for our views, when you already knew what Spink thought! Yes, I know that now.....I took it the wrong way, as if it were towards us. My mistake and many apologies to him and the rest of the forum! At least you know for sure now: this is really our first forum....ever!!! Everyone have a great week!!

A back-handed compliment is a compliment diguised as an insult!!! Us trying to insult people on the forum??? Absolutely not!!! It was recommended to us that we post the information and the pictures on this forum. We are not "posters" and did not even know the forum existed until a few days prior to our posting here.

Yes,we are interested in the coins value. The was the first G. Britain/UK coin that we have actually owned. We have collected US coins for decades and was just a bit confused as to why a coin listed in one of ESC/Seaby catalog as an R4 with about 11-20 examples known to exist was valued at basically the same price as an 1850, an R3 "extremly rare". NGC referred us to Krause (Standard Catalog of World Coins) who told us they recently removed 50/46 and replaced it with 50/49 and then it all began! We went back through our communications and found the one from Spink that they sent us after the examined the coin. We sent it to London for them to examine. As follows: They (Spink) thanked us for sending the coin to them that they were now able to examine. He stated that there no doubt in his mind that this is 1850/49 not 46. He said that he examined it under high magnification and the numeral under the 0 has a shadow between 270 and 90 degrees as well as a downward curve angled curve within the 0. And that this all supports this being the 1850-49 variety. He said that was possible in the past that some have been judged to be 1850/46 as it is not easy to see without good light and high magnification. Rather than the more obvious 1850/50 which amended a die used at the end of the previous year. He said it is still a very rare coin and he would grade this in UK terms as nearly very fine as the obverse is quite worn. We may return to NGC with Spink's results to see if they concur.

The overdates are not bringing anymore than an 1850 would. Check london Coins past sales results for both dates along with DNW or any other British auction House The last time we checked extensively for any sales for either overdate date was back around April. At that time we did find one from London Coins that realized a final price quite high, considering it to be possibly cleaned, toned, and the last digit undetermined. Actually the final price was 3,800 pounds or about USD, $6,000 (today's conversion), and that was a bit over six years ago in 2006. Here is a copy and paste of the info we saved from our search: Shilling 1850 ESC 1297 50 over 49 or 46 (R4). The 5 clearly struck over a 4 though the underlying figure below the 0 is unclear approaching EF perhaps once cleaned and retoned nevertheless extremely rare and especially so in this high grade Ex-Andrew Wayne collection London Coins Auction A113 June 2006 Lot 1284 More like this £3,800 Needless to say, we were happy to see that auction a good amount of years ago when we had just received our graded 50/46 back.

Although NGC said they stand behind their conclusion, they would re-examine the same coin. We are considering doing that. If we sent it to CGS, and they conclude a 50/46 as NGC did, we are basically in the same situation with Spink stating it is a 50/49. Spink removed the 50/46 from their most current data. Finally, it would be nice to see some actual sales data on both dates rather than an editors random assigned value. With an R4 rating, the date(s) should be valued higher than the 1850.

You'd have to submit it like you would with any other TPG. They just can't answer on the strength of a picture, they'd have to have the coin in hand for identification We just sent them an email. Yes, we figured just to send it in like we normally would but there are no options for "international" submissions. We are of course assuming there would be an added mailing fee and possibly a charge to remove from the NGC holder? By the way, do you know if there is a difference in value between the 50/46 and the 50/49?? If we should decide to sell it, and the value is the same regardless of what the buyer believes the last number is, we may reconsider sending it.

We actually contacted CGS,UK numerous times but never received a reply. Will try again this weekend.

It's an "erb".mannnn. If you like Oriental/Asian food you've had some. Please see the following new topic. We magnified and posted two good pics on the post and also provided a link to photobucket with 21 pictures!: 1850 /46 Victoria Shilling Part 2 Follow-Up PICS Follow-Up To First Post--With Pics and/or http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier I had a good long look at the largest 'blow up' (of the 50). The 5 is indisputably cut over a 4, but the 0 is a puzzle. It seems rather 'heavy' on its left hand side, as if it was compensating for something underlying on that side. That would make more sense if it was a 9, as extra work would be more needed on the left, whereas a 6 would need more work on the right hand side. But that's mere speculation - it doesn't appear at all easy to tell what the underlying digit is. I don't suppose you have a good blow up of a known 1850/49 to compare it with? I sure wish that we could find a known 1850/49 or even an 1850/46 to compare it to! Based on your input, we did compare it to an 18x6 and an 18x9 to compare the 6 and the 9. Our thought (and possibly the graders?) were along the same as yours. What are your thoughts on this: the heavy, ''thick/wider'' left side would indicate an underlying 6 rather than a 9?? When looking at the two numbers on the "control" coins and their shapes, a 6 would go along the entire left side, causing a thicker left side from top to bottom. And a 6 would really not thicken the right side per se, due to its shape and also the bottom of the six is about the same "width/shape" as the bottom of a zero. Whereas the 9 would do basically the opposite: thicker right and partial thickness on left??????? What do you think?? Looking forward to your reply! Thanks!!!

It's an "erb".mannnn. If you like Oriental/Asian food you've had some. Please see the following new topic. We magnified and posted two good pics on the post and also provided a link to photobucket with 21 pictures!: 1850 /46 Victoria Shilling Part 2 Follow-Up PICS Follow-Up To First Post--With Pics and/or http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier

Please see the following new topic. We magnified and posted two good pics on the post and also provided a link to photobucket with 21 pictures!: 1850 /46 Victoria Shilling Part 2 Follow-Up PICS Follow-Up To First Post--With Pics and/or http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier

Please see the following new topic. We magnified and posted two good pics on the post and also provided a link to photobucket with 21 pictures!: 1850 /46 Victoria Shilling Part 2 Follow-Up PICS Follow-Up To First Post--With Pics and/or http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier

The limit of 150kb is overall. One pic of 150kb or two of 75kb. From the pic you have already posted the 4 can be clearly be seen under the 5. Wether it is a 6 under the 0 or not is hard to tell, could just be a recut 0 as the 8 also seems to be recut or doubled. As to a value I am sure someone here with his vast library of auction catalogs will be able to come up with something Look forward to the close up pics. For Info, Rayner lists 1850 over 49 but not over 46 Davies lists 1850 over 46 but not over 49 Coincraft lists 1850 over 46 or 49 Spink 1850 over 49 hmmmm! Please see the following new topic. We magnified and posted two good pics on the post and also provided a link to photobucket with 21 pictures!: 1850 /46 Victoria Shilling Part 2 Follow-Up PICS Follow-Up To First Post--With Pics and/or http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier

Please see the following new topic. We magnified and posted two good pics on the post and also provided a link to photobucket with 21 pictures!: 1850 /46 Victoria Shilling Part 2 Follow-Up PICS Follow-Up To First Post--With Pics and/or http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier

New to the forum, this is a follow-up from our original post on the 1850/46 Victoria Shilling, NGC Certified. A few were looking for better/larger pictures of the coin. We purchased a USB magnifier and posted over 20 pics on photobucket for all to look at. Any opinion and feedback will be appreciated!!! Here is the link...about 21 pictures: http://photobucket.com/185046_USBmagnifier NGC 1850/46 Shilling *******************If you read our first post, stop here! We just copied and pasted it below for those who have not****************** Located in the USA, we are new to this area of collecting and it was suggested that we post our info in this forum. We are seeking an opinion / value of an 1850/46 G Britain Victoria Shilling that we had graded in March 2012 by NGC. Our inquiries began when we questioned NGC about the value of the coin since we could not find any current or past sales. Their catalog valued it at the same amount as an 1850 which was confusing since we found no basis for the value itself. They referred us to the editors of the Standard Value World Coins. Sequence (abbreviated): --March 2012 we sent the raw coin to NGC for grading noting that it could be an 1850/49, but we lacked the proper equipment. They disagreed and returned it as an 1850/46. --We subsequently were told that SPINK had removed it from their catalog, saying in effect that it does not exist, it is an 1850/46. --SCWC basically follows whatever SPINK publishes. --NGC has stated they stand behind their grade and determination when we contacted them. --SPINK disagrees with NGC. --CNG, London, USA stated that it is what NGC states it is. It is documented and it does not matter what..... --It is of course in Seaby's edition of ESC as an ESC1296A, as an R4 rating with only 11-20 known to exist. --Several major auction houses would like us to auction the coin with them, both here in the USA and in the UK, both online and "on the floor". --In just one of our contacts, it was stated: "I knew Alan Rayner well and I have no doubt that if the listing 1850/46 survived several editions then he had seen it. .........I know that when new editions were revised........ dealers were heard to say “ I have never seen this, I do not believe it really existsâ€. Thus elusive coins, perhaps under-rated by Alan’s cautious approach until his initial views were confirmed, could be deleted. As you say it sounds as they have found another over-date and mistakenly replaced the old entry instead of adding a new one............................................................." Any and all input would be greatly appreciated!!!! Of course we believe that we have an extremely valuable one of a kind coin that will eventually be sold for a considerable amount. But for now we will research and keep it safely off-site. Please note that as soon as possible we will post pictures that will taken with proper equipment. If you would like some pics that we do have, please send us your email address and we will be happy to send them to you. We tried to post some, but they exceeded the limit no matter how small we made them! Thank you, NewUKCollector

***For Comparing our 1850/46 ...PICS of 1846, 1849, and 1850 "Plain" Dates*** Good Morning! Thanks for the upload info, appreciate it. Yes, found these online and now know they are too small. Did you check photobucket? Assume same issue there. We will just wait for our new magnifier and post ours a ASAP. I guess we need to start a new topic? Cannot seem to locate where we can add to our original post. Also, as an FYI, we the dates using yahoo..com, and searching "date shilling". Have a great day! sorry but they are way too small to do anything with. The 1850 pic is 121x48 pixels and just 6kb of data. You have obviously cut the dates out of an existing pic which in its self must have been quite small. To have anything workable then the date pics have to be at least 500 pixels in width. If you are using a camera use the largest pic setting and get it as close to the coin as poss, if you are scanning use the highest resolution setting to obtain the largest pic possible and then cut the dates outs into a seperate pic. In any photo editing software you have an option to save as .jpeg which will tell you the size of the saved file and allow you to compress it to a given data size ie 150kb. If the quality of the pic is reduced too much by the compression then reduce the size of the original pic (usually under "Image" and then "Size" or "Resize"), say the original is 1000x500 pixels then reduce it to 500x250 this way you reduce the data size by half (not quite true but good enough) and then save as .jpeg. Example- The pic of the 1850 shilling from azda above is 1024x1009 pixels and has a file size of 372kb and I bet he has reduced that before posting it.

Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046 Here is an 1846, 1849 and an 1850 we found. Also put in photobucket. Thanks!!! ***For Comparing our 1850/46 ...PICS of 1846, 1849, and 1850 "Plain" Dates***

Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046 Here is an 1846, 1849 and an 1850 we found. Also put in photobucket. Thanks!!!

Hello! Thanks for the response, appreciate it. Figured out a way to compress a couple of pictures of the date and posted them a few moments ago. As mentioned in the prior post, we are waiting on a USB magnifier. Once it arrives we will take better pictures of the date and post them. Yes, we also agree with you on Rayner over Spink. Since we are new, is the upload limit per picture or is it an overall per account? Have a great evening! Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046

Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046

Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046

Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046

Here is the link for the images. Please note that we will still provide a link when we have the clearer picture. The password is predecimal (all lower case). http://www.photobucket.com/185046