Sword

They are extremely attractive coins! Might buy one or two in the future.

The thought that Leave would win AND a Remain politician would still be prime minister hardly crossed anyone's mind before the referendum. Quite naturally, most people expected a Leave prime minister if Leave wins. Remain were saying that's what Leave would do if they win. They meant that as a threat rather than their own policy if they lose the referendum but somehow win leadership. Remain never thought about what their policy would be in that situation. I know you will disagree and can of course understand your point of view. May should not have taken the job and it should have gone to a Brexiteer. But then Boris was huge bookmakers' favourite until he got betrayed.

Johnson had a good chance until he was stabbed in the back by his friend Gove.

The referendum options were a) remain in eu or b) leave the eu It doesn't say anything about the customs union. With hindsight, if option b) was leave eu AND the customs union, then it would be one less thing to argue about. It would be more straightforward if a Leave politician won the leadership contest and is prime minister. Then you can hold him to the promises made by the Leave campaign. May was remain and didn't make the brexit promises before the referendum. Some of the promises like the infamous battle bus slogan are not deliverable anyway. She spoke about her aspirations when she has got the job but has now failed. (But I do wonder what some Brexiteers would actually consider a good deal). She has now even said that the Uk can do well in the long run with no deal. But no deal has been refused by Parliament. There is now a real danger of a half baked Brexit that no one wants. Only the population can overrule parliament. Get a second referendum. No deal vs staying vs whatever. Use the alternative vote system if there are more than 2 brexit options. Talking about Brexit on a forum is like a bunch of Catholic priests debating with some Buddhist monks if the Sermon on the Mount has really taken place. Let's face it, it is unlikely that one side can convince the other.

The petition for revoking article 50 got over 6 million signatures. May could have used it as the reason to propose a second referendum. She didn't and posted the response that "This government will not revoke article 50" days before the debates on 1st April. She did the same for the 2nd referendum petition and said "This government will not hold a second referendum"

To be fair, May didn't deliberately tried to get a bad deal. She just couldn't get a good one. She wants to leave alright and tried to get her deal through 3 times, rejected a second referendum (because Remain might win), rejected revoking article 50 etc. The referendum only asked if people wanted to Leave and not how we will leave. So leaving but staying in the customs union still honours that result. The government is not blind to anything else promised by the Leave group. Beware that you might not get the Brexit you want.

I think it is really sporting that remainers here have not mentioned that the Leave Campaign was fined for over spending and no one really know how much or little effect this over spending had on the results.

Probably just arrogance and the possibility of defeat has hasn't seriously crossed his mind. Let's get this over and done with since I am going to win. May didn't thought she would never lose her majority either. There is one thing many politicians of all parties have in common: a large ego.

Brexit voting day in Parliament?

My question was of course rhetorical. But I will ask another question. If the customs union was passed last night and the government decide to adopt it. Do you think the UK would still be better off than remaining? There would be no famous "trade deals with other countries" and we lose our say in the EU. Hardly what the Leave group promised. Most people did not envisaged we would be in our current situation when we voted nearly 3 years ago. It's it really undemocratic to ask the people if they really prefer the final leaving arrangments than staying? It is not stopping Brexit. It is to prevent us accepting a situation that the majority of the people do not want. I will go out and enjoy the nice weather. Must resist talking Brexit.

It has been a long tradition that artists put their faces on their works. One of my favourites is Michaelangelo putting his face on the skin St Bartholonew is holding on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

Brexit is almost as effective in getting people angry on this forum as TPGs. I will say this before trying to stay away from this tread. I do strongly disagree with Brexiteers calling Remain MPs "traitors". Some are even claiming that MPs like Dominic Grieve are arrogant in thinking they are more intelligent and better informed than the people they represent. An MP is not some sort of brainless mouthpiece for his constituents. He has a duty to act and vote in the best interest of his constituents and the population at large. And yes, I do very much hope that our MPs are intelligent and well informed. Mr Grieve is a QC, was an attorney general, was the shadow Justice and Home Secretaries. Yes, I would say he is very well informed and undoubtedly very intelligent. He is pushing for a second referendum because he genuinely believe rightly or wrongly it is the best option for the country. I respect him a great deal more than someone voting along party lines as an easier way out. And if we don't like what our MPs are doing, we SACK them in the next general election. That is our system of our democracy. But I do object to calling principled politicians traitors. I ask people in favour of Brexit this question: If Remain won that referendum narrowly and there are MPs pushing for Brexit, would you call those MPs traitors? Probably not.

It will take a long time and might involve a number of general elections. But eventually, we will have a government that has the trust of the public again. The UK and many other countries have bounce back from worst situations in the past! And here are some flying pigs: (And for those of us without young children, Peppa is very popular with kids) What does it look like? Is it rare? (I really don't know as I don't collect pennies )

There are 73 UK MEPs and I can only find three who have previously served as Westminster MPs. They are: Nirj Deva, Jim Nicholson and Siôn Simon. Farage himself has never been an MP. The myth that many MPs do not want UK to leave the EU because they are hoping to become MEPs is simply not true. It is very sad that so many people (quite understandably) are suspicious of the motives of both Leave and Remain MPs. Like everyone else, I hope the Brexit issue can be resolved soon and that government can work towards regaining the faith of the people again.

I was a teenager when Neil Kinnock lost the '92 general election to John Major. I hardly remember anything about his politics now but I recall he made a powerful and emotional farewell speech. The sentence "I will regret to my dying day my failure to lead you to victory, the victory you deserved.' left a very strong impression on me in particular. It was a dignified apology to his supporters. I just can't see Mrs May capable of saying that when she is forced to leaves office. Even if the calculations are accurate, it is saying that Kinnock Couple made £10 millions from the EU over 15 years. This figure includes £2.9 million for staff and offices and their £4.4 millions pensions. OK, it is questionable if people should be paid so much in the public sector. But like I say, senior "retired" politicians can make more than a million a year by making speeches etc. And they don't have to go to "work" everyday like Kinnock during his 10 years as EU commissioner / Vice President. The Kinnock couple could probably have made that money (or more) if they didn't work for the EU. There might be many reasons why MPs want the UK to stay in Europe. But hoping to get an EU job after retirement is just not one of them in my view.

No, I don't believe that the possibility of getting a well-paid EU job after Westminster is a factor on why many MPs don't want the country to Leave the Union. Senior politicians can make big money after leaving parliament as directors, by writing or by making speeches. For example, William Hague, Gordon Brown etc make well over a million a year by giving speeches etc. EU commissioners in comparison get paid 260k euros to 307K euro (for the president) + perks each year and each member state has only the the right of having one commissioner.

OK. But the friction between you and Chris has been obvious for months now. It will be really nice if it is possible to move on and keep things congenial. (This whole Brexit process is already depressing enough as it is)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way Chris replies to posts either. Just a friendly word ozjohn, I think some of your remarks are getting too sharp and personal. Chris has refrained from commenting on your posts regarding Brexit for a while now. Perhaps it is diplomatic to do the same and accept his opinions differ from yours.

I have never heard of it until about a year ago when I took my toddler nephew to see the Gruffalo show at a theatre. (The original book was published in 1999) and young kids love the character apparently.

It is a better design than some but still doesn't do it for me. Good quality Wedgwood vases are characterised by sharp and detailed design. The design on particularly the BU version is neither sharp or detailed. The mintage numbers are low and so should sell out. But I still don't think it will maintain value in the secondary market. People who like Wedgwood would buy real Wedgwood. Kids wanting a Gruffalo would buy Gruffalo toys. Grown-ups still young at heart might want to have Gruffalo coins. Might be I am just being naive and people would still want them in a few years time?

I think modern issues usually do badly in the secondary market with the exception of those which are able to "strike a cord" with the public. I don't honestly think this Wedgwood has any chance of doing well. Who cares about Wedgwood? At least seeing the Gruffalo or Snowman can make someone smile and hence they have got some potential.

Wish this is mine. It was actually exhibited in the Tower of London

I listened to Mrs May's statement tonight. All she did was to blame the MPs rather than taking some personal responsibility. If I have a chance to talk to her, I would give her the following responses to her statement. "I passionately hope MPs will find a way to back the deal I've negotiated with the EU, a deal that delivers on the result of the referendum and is the very best deal negotiable.” The problem is using “I” rather than “we”. Saying that it is “the very best deal negotiable” is arrogance. No politician should claim that they have done such a good job and that no one else could have done better. "And I will continue to work night and day to secure the support of my colleagues, the DUP and others for this deal.” Why do you need to work day and night for the support of just 10 DUP MPs? That’s because you managed to lose your majority against Jeremy Corbyn? Even after Corbyn was weakened after scores and scores of resignations? After the Tory had such a big lead in the polls. And then your famous billion pounds bribe to get the support of just 10 DUP MPs. If you weren’t competent enough to win that general election, do you honestly think you were capable of handling the much harder issue of Brexit? "But I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than the 30th of June.” Yes, it is your deal or no deal isn't it. You should have already held indicative votes. "Some argue that I'm making the wrong choice and I should ask for a longer extension to the end of the year or beyond to give more time for politicians to argue over the way forward.” "That would mean asking you to vote in European elections nearly three years after our country decided to leave.” "What kind of message would that send? And just how bitter and divisive would that election campaign be at a time when the country desperately needs bringing back together.” Please wake up Prime Minister, the country cannot be any more divided ever since that ill-fated first referendum. "Some have suggested holding a second referendum. "I don't believe that's what you want and it is not what I want. Prime minister, please stop telling us what the public wants. The reason you lost your majority in the last election was because you misjudged what the public wanted then. Perhaps you should ask the public what they want now? "We asked you the question already and you've given us your answer. So why are you asking parliament for the third time if they want your deal after it has been rejected twice. Are you hoping that MPs will change their minds? But you don’t want to find out if the nation has changed its mind about Brexit however. "Now you want us to get on with it. "And that is what I am determined to do." But are you capable of doing that? If it makes you feel better Prime Minister, I think Corbyn would have done much worse. My question to you Prime Minister is this: If a second referendum is held (and you probably should quit if that were to happen) and the country decides to stay, what do you think it is the right thing for the UK to do then?

Looks like nothing will actually happen on the 29th March. With hindsight, the prime minister should have set the original Brexit date three days after that date.

Apparently, Philip Hammond was asked about the "wrong" date on the prototype pieces on the Andrew Marr Show. He simply replied “They could become collectors’ pieces”.