Sword

How about this for a scam. Sign up up to be a CGS agent. Charge a very low service fee to get some business. Then do a runner with the coins! The turnaround time for CGS is 3 months plus. So you have at least 3 months to getaway because anyone suspect anything.

Actually, one has to pay a subscription of £99. Then subscribers can apply to be grading members. They are rather selective and states that " Clients who have a track record of submitting coins to the former CGS or are regular clients of London Coins auction or dealership service are likely to be approve" No riff raff then. And once they have approved your application, then you have the privilege of paying the £499 deposit upfront. Personally, I think this is just not exclusively enough. I think applicants should be proposed by a current member and seconded by another. They must be interviewed and swear their loyalty to LCGS. Seriously though, by getting rid of all their "small" customers, I think CGS coins will lose credibility. This is because a higher percentage of new slabbing is for their own LCA and so there will be more suspicion on their impartiality.

Nice to see that you have your coins back. I don't think I have been any good grading Pre 1927 George V from photos. Any tips appreciated. For example, I thought the 1919 would grade quite a bit higher than CGS65. I can believe that 1913 is high grade from the details of the crown and that the loss of details is mostly due to weak strike. But how can one tell from a photo how exactly how much is due to wear and how much is due to weak strike.

For me it depends a lot on where the carbon spot is. A small spot on the field like that one on the 1918 penny won't put me off. A spot near the rim is even less of a problem. However, I won't want a coin if there is an ugly spot on the eye or mouth of the portrait for example. To be honest, I would probably rather have a slightly lower grade coin instead! I have only ever brought one CGS coin (although I have used CGS quite a few times to slab my raw coins). On that occasion, I placed an absentee bid based on the CGS photos. Unfortunately for me, that coin has actually developed a carbon spot right next to the king's nose since it has been slabbed. Obviously, I would have never brought it if I knew it was there. Out of interest, on what ground did LCGS reject the 1918?

Looks like London Coins have realised this and the links no longer work. You get a "Permission denied. Permission denied" message. However they have also inadvertently disabled all the photos on the "Coins for Sale" section of their London Coins website by doing this. Makes no difference of course as no one want to buy at their silly CGS prices anyway. Update: London Coins have now figured out that they have disabled the photos on their own website and so the links are working again. Last chance (for what's that worth) to download any CGS photos before they disable the links again.

My guess is that they have (or will) ceased trading and have become a dormant company.

Hope they can keep their promise. But did they mention August or 2016?

Looks like London Coins have realised this and the links no longer work. You get a "Permission denied. Permission denied" message. However they have also inadvertently disabled all the photos on the "Coins for Sale" section of their London Coins website by doing this. Makes no difference of course as no one want to buy at their silly CGS prices anyway.

I agree that the "guarantee" is certainly now worthless and charging £99 is going to be fatal to them. However, I am just not clear why they had to take the very drastic step of closing CGS and opening LCGS. This is bad business practise and which will result in the loss of credibility. I doubt anyone has successful proved that they have a fake coin in a CGS slab and so their offer of "guarantee" has and probably will not cost them anything. (proving a fake beyond doubt and without removing it from the slab is just so difficult). Massive changes and U-turns with regard to pricing don't necessitate closing it down either. I am also assuming that those people (if any) that have paid them the £499 membership fee have to be refunded. The only possible reasons I can think of are might be the share holders owing the other 49% of CGS want to pull out. If CGS is then completely own by London Coins, it can no longer be called a TPG. Or perhaps they might now want to grade using Sheldon?

Problem is I don't have a Facebook account.

I wonder what is Bill Pugsley's view on the whole thing ...

Very nice!

An annual £99 fee would effectively stop those people wishing to slab occasionally. I used to slab on average a couple a year and so can't use them anymore. Having said that, I am not sure I want to anyway even without the fee. At least they used to pretend to be a TPG. Now they have effectively declared themselves a first party slabber. (They used to own 51% of CGS. I suspect LC might own the whole thing now and hence the change of name.) Undoubtedly, more people will think (rightly or wrongly) that they will grade coins being sold by LCA more favourably. E.g. a coin might grade 75 if it belongs to a small time customer, 78 if it is slabbed for an LCA auction and 80 if they are selling it via their website. Self slabbers are just not perceived to be impartial. But the grading fee for 200 coins is 2k to 3k and is a substantial investment. I have got less than 20 myself but am still rather annoyed.

Personally, I think this is just very bad behaviour. Firstly, CGS asked for £499 membership and published a new price list. Then customers were told that CGS was under "new management". Now they sent out an e-mail saying that CGS has in fact "closed and ceased trading" and is asking for a £99 annual subscription fee for the new London Coins Grading Service. And who sent the e-mail? Ms Cetin herself. Looks like I was right about the change being from Semra in-charge to Cetin in-charge

I wonder if they will have the cheek to call it a TGP after this change of name...

I don't believe that CGS is a viable business without London Coins. It needs London Coins for (all?) its staff and premises. So it is hard to believe anyone wanting to buy CGS off London Coins. So could the change in management be from "Semra in charge" to "Cetin in charge"?

It's of course possible that the new pricing came from the new owners / shareholders. Having said that, the fact the the website was closed down just yesterday by the new management for "restructuring" would suggest that they were not responsible for the previous changes. In any case "new management" could simply mean a new general manager (which presumably was Semra previously). It doesn't necessarily mean new owners or shareholders. The London Coins website is still claiming that that London Coins Holding owns 51% of CGS.

I think you are probably right.

I just don't understand. Why did CGS introduced their ridiculous "elite membership" for £499 if new management was imminent?

I guess I wasn't so far off. The latest offering from the Royal Mint is "Three crowns for three crowned kings". This set consists of a worn Edward VII crown, a rocking horse and a 1937 crown. They are also charging a King's ransom of £275. Only slightly less ridiculous than my "Kings with moustaches" suggestion http://www.royalmint.com/shop/The_20th_Century_Kings_Silver_Three_Coin_Set

That’s why I will get so much more pleasure owing a fully struck unc currency coin without bag marks than the equivalent proof in mint state (even if the proof is a lot more expensive).

Why is this tolerated by the various governments around the world? If this is not stopped, they will soon by selling "souvenir" £20 notes, $100 bills and so on.

It's obviously a gimmick by Westminster Collection. The purchase money went to charity, the Royal British Legion. They have got some publicity from it and is now giving the coin away as a prize. The flan used was a nickel plated 10p according to the bbc. An off-metal strike 1980 two pence in cupro-nickel only sold for £80 by LCA a few months ago...

Good to hear that! At least they are honouring the old fees in your case. "Third party grading" means an "independent" grading company even according to the LCA website. CGS is dependent on LCA for just about everything from availability of graders, personnel, premises and Semra ... CGS has now even removed the contact telephone number from their website. I guess it really doesn't matter to me anymore since I won't be paying their "elite" membership fee and so won't be able to use them again.

I have no doubt that Bill Pugsley can easily get an exemption from the fee if he wished. It is probably irrelevant to him anyway since he spends so much on slabbing and will quickly use up the £499 credit. However, he really care about the success and future of CGS and is giving them a strong protest if he is not currently sending coins to them.