Peterkin

Could we see some photos of it please. You could consider selling it through this forum. You might get a decent price from a member - and no auction fees to pay.

The coin doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary. The seller's other coins are getting a fair bit of interest too. I'm not able to see details of the bidders on Ebay - which seems odd, only that there are 6 bidders with 9 bids.

Looks like one for TomGoodHeart.

I've got it! A woman scorned. Scary. It's like that film - Fatal Attraction. A Bunny Tooler That's the one.

And there I think is the problem. TPGs encourage people to be lazy and, rather than in the old days learning how to grade coins to their own satisfaction, many now rely upon someone else's opinion. There is a suggestion that grading is an absolute science, but of course, it's not or we wouldn't get any changes upon resubmission, would we? But that aside, I guess I don't really have much of a problem with graded and slabbed coins, so long as they aren't ones I collect! If people want to fret about whether their cent is MS64 or MS65, 'finest known' or whatever, fine. Since US coins are graded using the Sheldon scale anyway, sticking a coin in a plastic slab doesn't make much difference and I can see the advantages of protecting the things from sticky fingers and knocks. But when TPGs try to use the same standards on English hammered, well, I'm not happy with that! For a start, as everyone should know, it takes experience to grade coins. You need to have seen enough to compare one against another. But also, I would question whether the precentage of wear a hammered coin has had is a useful measure. For accuracy you need to know both what a 'perfect' as struck example might look like. And also have an idea what condition the coin you are grading was in when it left the mint. Die and striking variations can mean that a coin that has had a lot of wear (but was very well struck to start with) is much more appealing than one as sharp as it was on day 1, but from an uneven flan or poor strike. From that perspective slabs simply make it difficult to photograph a coin and tricky to see how round it is (those four little supporting 'spurs' might be better but they still obscure parts of the edge). And really, even with UK dealers, I tend to rely on what I think of a coin, well before I see what grade they have given it. As for US TPGs well, I personally just don't think they have enough experience to voice an opinion. I have posted this wonderful piece of hyperbole before because it amuses me. And while the coin is sharply stuck, is it good looking? Not so much in my opinion... http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=31&lot=2161 Thank you Tom. Wise words, and amusing coin description - what the cataloguer gets right is that he has no idea how the coin was attributed as MS62. I saw a fantastic example of a PCSG slabbed English hammered. PCGS has it as a groat, James the fourth, and a date. I can't remember the date PCGS had expertly determined. But they were wrong on all points! It was a shilling, James first of England / sixth of Scotland. I find that hilarious. Even the august members of this Forum are leery about putting together a book on grading English hammered, no doubt with lifetemes of experience in the topic - but for the guys with the slabs, "no problem!". I haven't discovered what objective criteria (in the way of checklists) the US TPGs apply to grading English coins, but I have discovered that they do have such for their various American coins of different denominations and series, e.g. they can turn to the section which discusses Morgan Dollars and in theory work their way through the checklist. Obviously such criteria, if it has had to be produced for each denomination/ series of the subject American coins can NOT be applicable to grading English coins. I'd love to know what the likes of PCGS and NGC acknowledge that they DO use to grade English coins (perhaps they have a go at using "Grading British Coins") - if anyone has any specific information on that. Buyers have the right to expect sellers to grade fairly, and to expect TPGs to grade competently, or take their business elsewhere. Buyers and sellers behove it to the hobby, let alone to themselves, to learn grading. I would say that a collector who has learned grading is able to enjoy so much more about our hobby. To be able to appreciate how remarkable is the survival of a piece in a high degree of preservation for example requires at least the ability to recognize such degree of preservation - which comes from learning grading.

I've got it! A woman scorned. Scary. It's like that film - Fatal Attraction.

I just had to post again on this topic. It's been bothering disturbing me that much. WHO? does that to a coin? What's the mental process that's gone through? It's COIN ABUSE.

I am starting to wonder if grading hasn't .. slipped a bit everywhere. Certainly I've noticed a few dealers who worked for major companies before setting up on their own being ... more generous with their grading than they would ever have been allowed to get away with earlier in their career. Oh, and this caught my eye the other day. Coin on the left was graded 'generally good fine, better in places' when sold by Bonhams in 2006. Coin on the right, currently on sale through Baldwins graded .. very fine. OK, the difference between good fine and very fine is not great and there is some subjectivity ... but doesn't very fine sound better? And probably will command a better price too. Thank you Tom. Absolutely agreed (but it's the reverse really isn't it, and as you correctly say - for monetary benefit). Folks having entered into the dealing profession have taken the sworn oath of "Devil take the hindmost", without hte brakes of objectivity or neutrality being applied, then "Sell" grades improve, "Buy" grades of course do not. A punter can buy an UNC coin in the morning, take it home, and after his wife has discovered the purchase and told him to take it back, the coin is received back by the dealer, but in no better than in "about good" (PCGS EF Details of course), such being the way with the unslabbed business, and at a substantially lower price than the morning's price, the bottom having fallen out of the market in the interim in that particular coin only, not ALL other coins you understand. Punter goes home, faces wife. Dealer fishes out the UNC sticker again - and reapplies it. Within the slabbing industry (I think it fair to call it industry)of course, yesterday's VF25 is tomorrow's EF40, is next week's AU55 etc upon resumission after resubmission. Gradflation seems the norm.

You are absolutely right. Sorry, I was remiss. Yes, you need, as above pointed out, and: STUNNING! RARE (and more ambitious permutations thereon, depending on how strong a stomach you've got). Invent a new Variety: "L@@K, Stunning, RRRRare, Unique! UNC, DIPPED, 1 not over anything really, OVERPRICED TAT, Major INVESTMENT, MAKE MONEY NOW NOW NOW EASILY!!! That's about it. Still missed anything?

you could resize them ...or, you could upload to somewhere like photobucket or flickr and then add the links to your posts i dont know what photobucket is so im gonna have to get the expert(my son in law) to show me how to do that.in the meantime, it nice to chat. ive started to collect coins of all denominations,most of them currently in circulation, but more as a fsmily heirloom than profit,so i wont be selling any of them. they are going to my grandchildren eventually so i need to know how best to store them. For storage, the main thing is not to store them long term inside PVC or in contact with PVC. It's really got a bad reputation for damaging coins because of chemicals. The other thing is to store them in a safe place where they won't be subject to careless handling, perhaps by curious children, or well meaning polishers (coins can be heard to scream if you polish them!)

The bottom one appears to be lighthouse.

You may get an idea of value if you Google Hollandia shipwreck and see what comes up. There may not be much in the way of value, but they were important enough for your grandmother to keep in the secret drawer of the desk - so, why not keep them in the safe.

Don't. Coin collecting is coin collecting, only do it for the enjoyment of collecting. Its not an investment. If you're happy with bullion as an investment stick with it. Good luck with the bullion investing.

ie melted down for scrap? Well, I was thinking: with a circularish opening in the seat a la comode. But YES, melted for scrap/ exhibit in the Tate, yes

Best way to sell them seems to be dip them (details of how to: available on WWWeb near U or UFraud) so they are shiny bright,brighter the better, overstate the grade, or make no statement of grade but pretend they were left to you by dear grandpapa and you have no idea what they are and that someone told you that they are in fact coins¡ - and get them on our favourite auction site dear old Ebay at 99p starting price for each with "no reserve", profess no knowledge and exhort buyers to make their own mind up. Did I miss anything?

Very disappointing for you obviously, Dave. It's easy to be fooled with some pics, and this is maybe an object lesson in trying to get a detailed large one before you part with any money. Good luck in getting your money back, anyway. No respect at all, actually. But definitely a shedload of condescension. EF Details Trench Art? Put the damn thing out of its misery

Greg, whilst you may have been thinking of a choice between pennies or French coins - take your time, read, absorb, follow what takes your interest in the likes of Google and Wiki. Absorb the free stuff, become familiar with coin jargon, which the above posts are full of. Do plenty of reading up and familiarizing before you spend anything. There's no rush. Enjoy the hobby. There's an awful lot more to it than just accummulating bits of metal. For example, as you enquired: "Why IS the back of the coin upside down compared with the front?" Research, enjoy.

Sounds like a good start to the wonderful obsession hobby of coin collecting! Pennys, which Lincoln quarter do you have?

that's a pretty coin. FiftyPercentSilver, as an idea to help you choose which coin you want to spend your money on, perhaps you may find it helpful to look up the history connected with whichever coin you are inclined to consider as a potential purchase - and see which one interests you most. Good luck, happy searching, and please do share with the forum which coin you end up buying.

At the risk of a few Boooos from the gallery: I am actually in favour of slabbing. It has its faults, but I think is an improvement, or at least a move in the right direction, on the state of buying/ selling and collecting pre-slabbing, and which we still see in the unslabbed market on the likes of Ebay where, as numerous posts have observed, grades are routinely overstated. I'm also in favour of melting down a lot of the dross which we see again and again. Actually, slabs pre-date eBay. And the standard of buying & selling was a whole lot better pre-eBay (I agree 100% with your comments about the 'Bay). To take a case in point - the auction house Warwick & Warwick was a fine institution in the 90s when I bought from there, but from the comments made here, it seems to have gone downhill fast. You could argue that slabs give some protection from the worst excesses of eBay, but knowledge acquired by the coin-buying public would give just as much, and would preserve standards across the numismatic board. Yes, they certainly do. I think PCGS, as an example, was started in the early '80s as a project between a group of USA dealers to facilitate inter dealer sight unseen trading - those founding dealers guaranteed to accept such slabbed coins at the grades stated at their dealer to dealer prices. I would extend the argument that you pose to include worst excesses of sellers, not only Ebay.

You couldn't get away with that in an English-speaking nation.. (I once was behind a van inscribed B&D CLEANERS - I decided I wouldn't be hiring them!!) I ordered a 69 and got beanshoots I don't know if is the same now because this was 10 years ago, but the Chinese near the Star & Garter at the top of the High St in Wigston, Leicester did it properly. Whilst discussing what we wanted, my friend said he fancied a 69. The menu informed us that was Shrimp & Mushrooms. You couldn't make it up if you tried. But you could if you fried!! On the other side of the van it says "Liposuction Clinic". Euuuuuhhhh!

Yes. Definitely a keeper, even although the condition's not up to much. You have a whole load of history, right there with that coin. Enrique IV was nicknamed "the impotent", but if you go back to about his great grandfather I suppose - Pedro The Cruel, you find that he was, shall we say ... a bit of a swordsman. Even if you look up Cuenca, the name of the place where it was minted - you find that there was "the old mint" which did hammered coins, but then there was "the new mint" which did milled coins.

Probably worth a few bob....... Perhaps the Churchill Crown should be renamed the Churchill Seat? (AKA Blenheim Palace) NOw! That IS a good use for all the dross coins we see. How about Churchill Throne - if the seat was remodelled a bit?

What can one say? The man's a survivor. Wait for the "Salt. Made from the salty Atlantic Ocean waters of Hurricane ..." soon to be appearing on our favourite auction site