Horsa

lol thanks guys I did not buy them its a customer who i trust asking about them so i got him to send me some photo's to see if i could help him But i'm beginning to think he might be telling porkies Either way i'm unsure about them as well

Hi guys I'm having a little trouble finding similiar silver bars on the net and finding out how old and perhaps valuable they are. They were purchased in Shanghia in 1974 and have been boxed up untill now. They are definately silver Any links to possible information or help would be good Sincerely Martin

I have more photo's however it seems impossible to upload them on here

Firstly let me state that: I withhold all rights to the following personal correspondence and evidence that I will be posting in this thread and do not allow it to be copied and pasted onto any other website or forums without express permission, If this site have any clauses saying that they own all information posted on its website like face book! I hereby nullify these clauses. If this should be a problem please inform me and I will remove this thread and post it on another website where I am currently trading If anyone would like to spread the word on the web and use my personal evidence I would only ask that you inform me beforehand so that I don’t double post and also that you link it back to my shop and this forum. Please message me beforehand! Here it is: Over the last 4 months I have been arguing a point of law with government bodies over the amount of vat charged on my imported coins into the UK, if any of you have ever imported legal tender coins like the American eagle or maple leaf into the UK then you will have no doubt had to pay 20% vat before you were allowed to take them home! If you have not imported them but just brought them from a bullion dealer then you should have noticed that they have passed the 20% vat on to you, Over the next 3 to 6 months this will no longer be the case when the vat will be dropped to 5% as soon as the UK border force follows the rule of law and implements it’s classifications correctly. Short back history: Initially I had a hard time dealing with HMRC trying to argue and explain my case ( most of them had no idea what I was talking about ) but eventually I was passed on to the technical manager ( this gentleman makes the classifications on products imported into the UK and decides what rate of vat is applicable), I cannot express my admiration and respect for this civil servant, who reinstalled my belief in government employees. His dedication to being honest, fair and following the rule of law made me proud to be British and I wish we had more people like him in government departments. I will not ramble on here anymore but will instead post my parliamentary complaint letter below in the next section with the attached information that I sent with the complaint following in the sections afterwards ( some personal details have been omitted). At this moment in time it will most probably still take a while for the UK border force to stop overcharging vat and also for the bullion dealers to stop passing the 20% vat onto your purchases in the UK but should you be importing coins then make sure you download the BOR286 form and demand a refund, it might take 6 months for the cheque to arrive but it’s your money so go get it! Please keep a look out on my central thread for future investigations that I will be posting. http://forums.ebid.net/showthread.ph...83#post1536983 Most are boring as hell but I would hope informative. Sincerely Martin

true but i still tend to enjoy them more when England wins

to be honest i know nothing about him i rarely pay attention to football watched England lose to France on Saturday which is the only thing i truly feel sorry about

depending on coffee intake a little of A and a little of B

Rattles little plastic hammer menacingly

No idea what happened then Chris, I never received any return emails don't worry about it I did like your coin sleeves with the flap holder better then any other coin sleeves I've come across so far especially the bigger ones i think it was the 50mm I cant find anything else like them out there so I'll try again next time i need to order Sincerely Martin

my last successful order was Order Number: 6056Detailed Invoice: http://www.predecimal.com/account_history_info.php?order_id=6056Date Ordered: Thursday 21 March, 2013spoke to you on the phone about a bigger order, you was in Germany at the time we even spoke German for a bit sent you 2 to 3 emails after that with a bigger order was about £150 ish asking about the possible discount and how to do it in regards to the online order process but never got a reply so found someone else

whitehouse chris and forget it I'd rather move on and talk about the angel of the north's buttocks to be honest ! funny thing is guys when i originally joined up here and placed an add saying i had opened my shop on ebid about 4 members said hey silvertrader we brought such and such off you on ebay ( 1697 crown etc etc ) so obviously there is a connection to here even for me ebid works differently to ebay everybody barters on there so usually i sell the coins cheaper in the end I suppose no one argues with a £5 half crown which is in decent condition but then not every collector can afford top graded prices I love the angel of the north

Sorry Peter i'm a rugby fan not football so no idea about Sunderland probably lived abroad in Australia and Germany for too many years

lol thanks guys and i know the feeling but maybe if more people post items for sale in this thread then you might get more sales coinery plus you never know maybe I'll post a 1905 half crown one day then your thanks me for being cheeky I work on the basis of ebay and silver content but as i understand it sometimes collectors like to have placers i.e. a decent half crown untill they get a perfect one so thats what I'm aiming for lol

Thanks Chris I'm never obnoxious to fair and friendly comments and staying calm has nothing to do with not putting up with obvious flippened and obnoxious slap downs as was yours. maybe you should be more polite and diplomatic in future and not be so rude as to warrant a reaction Actually i know how much work is involved not only in setting things up but also in regards to fighting a parliamentary complaint against the ukbf over the importation vat on numismatic collectors items for over a year that was my very first post here in this community and the final report will be coming out in 4 weeks on the parliamentary ombudsman website I have also brought capsules and coins sleeves from you in the past but gave up when you did not respond to a few of my emails regarding a bigger order So no i don't think i have much to learn

I understand that mate but i did post in the items for sale section not in any thread where people would be asking for help as you suggest as for only 28 posts, agreed its not a lot but then i don't go out of my way to comment on various issues when other people are more able to As this particular thread is for items for sale but hardly anyone ever posts here i thought it might be nice to post something not sure that can be described as blatant profiteering but fair enough i can understand how some people might take offense like chris and throw obviously deliberate smack down comments around not all of us have major businesses where we can buy coins from people as scrap grade them up and sell them at a massive increase at will in a completely unregulated industry some of us just have morals ! I'll try to have more of an input in other threads in future and instead of just posting a friendly message in the items for sale section I'll just add a link to my online shop as my signature like everyone else

Scrap thats abit harse mate especially when looking at some of your half crowns and 3 pences my 1940 and 1943 threepences seem to be in much better condition then the ones your selling for £20 + ef etc and not to mention the 1935 crown for £30 mine are only £16 My mistake i thought this was a community I did not mean to step on toes by advertising here

I've already sold the 1846 24 skilling norwegian coin A 1853 victorian sixpence various half crowns, florins and shilling from 1890 to 1930 The edward the 7th coins seem to be going well I'm no expert on grading mate and to be honest after seeing how some of the coin dealers here in the north east have graded thier coins i consider it to be a bit of a con most of the time I just take the best possible photo's that i can and let others judge so far i've never had a single complaint all buyers were very happy including many members on here so i cant be doing that bad Sincerley Martin

not at all mate i also sell on ebay but i really hate the fee's so opened a shop on ebid Agreed a lot of coins are lower grade but not all ! I have made a deal with a refinary and was allowed to sort through 60 kgs of coins buying 4 kilo's worth there are some really nice coins in there Trust me

Hard to know where to start ranging from an 1835 William the 4th threepence all the way up to 1937 crowns 641 listings in the british pre decimal section http://uk.ebid.net/perl/main.cgi?type1=a&type2=a&cat=735918&mo=user-store&title=Silvertrader but then also international coins like the 1942 100 mils palestine coin up to a 1897 south african ZAR sixpence http://uk.ebid.net/perl/main.cgi?type1=a&type2=a&cat=737612&mo=user-store&title=Silvertrader silver proofs and bullion bars and coins are obviously not the kind of thing to post here so i'll leave it but if you guys see anything that you might like let me know Sincerely Martin

Thanks george just going to post a comment and my response from a different site here as i think it might help: A big well done for your efforts so far Martin,I personally will now instruct any Aussie dealers I buy from to use the codes you have shown in your battle with HMRC,I am just a private collector but am p--sed off with being ripped off by HMRC I have spoken by phone a couple of times about the VAT situation and have been fobbed off BUT NO MORE I take my inspiration from yourself. Well done. The problem with common sense is, its not that common. Offline Member From: United Kingdom Registered: 2013-06-09 Last Visit: Yesterday Posts: 23 Re: Importation Vat on numismatic coins into the UK is not 20%Thanks Mate If you find a dealer who is willing to use the code for numismatic collectors items ( 9705000000 ) and your buying anyway then get them to send it out to you with this code! Feel free to copy the letter earlier in the thread from hmrc to state your case that its the correct code to use and see what happens the last 2 parcels that i have received have not incurred a vat charge at all ( 0% ) I'm not sure if this is due to them no longer wanting to play with me lol or if they just happened to miss them ! It could be that the backlog in refunds that they have ( at this moment in time the beginning of august ) is forcing them to the position that its just not worth the trouble to keep charging the 20% and deal with the refund or if i was just lucky enough to get 2 parcels through the system unnoticed. In 3 months they have only managed to catch up a single month on the refund requests and thats with 2 extra staff being drafted in ! basically if your importing a small parcel anyway and can get it under the code 9705000000 then do it on the basis that they will charge you the 20% vat ! then send in the bor286 with your relevant information and get a refund, which may sadly take 3 months. Good luck mate

Hey guys sorry i should have updated stuff but have been really busy basically its just ongoing i'm still fighting the battle but the buggers are taking their time At the moment its still 20% vat however i am challenging this and until the decision is made your have to pay 20% ( i personally can do it in small amounts due to the amount of paperwork i have etc etc ) but this does not help others like you at the moment will add the latest development / received letter in 4 minutes i need to edit personal details follow the link to the bottom of the page to see the latest response from the parliamentary Ombudsman http://forums.ebid.net/showthread.php?167858-Silvertraders-topics-%28-Importation-Vat-on-numismatic-coins-into-the-UK-is-not-20-!-%29/page2

Hi guys I have sent this response back + this complaint has now gone to the parliamentary ombudsman Wish me luck ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- martin >>>>>>> Attachment 02/07/2013 Documents, Photos To: mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk Cc: enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk, freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk Picture of martin >>>>>> From: martin >>>>>>> (>>>>>>>>>>>@hotmail.co.uk) Sent: 02 July 2013 14:54:29 To: mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk (mark.harper.mp@parliament.uk) Cc: enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk (enquiries@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk); freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk (freedom.informationteam@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk) Outlook Active View 4 attachments (total 2.3 MB) Download Complaint reference 40>>>.doc (182.7 KB) Complaint reference 40>>>.doc View online Download 2nd parcel 2.jpg (767.1 KB) Download Download new parcel.jpg (1342.1 KB) Download Download new parliamentary complaint.docx (15.7 KB) new parliamentary complaint.docx View online View slide show (2) Download all as zip Martin>>>>>>> Dear Mark Harper, Sir Charles Montgomery Parliamentary ombudsman Dear Gentlemen, I recently sent you a parliamentary complaint on the 5th of June see attachment (parliamentary complaint) and have just received a reply from Mrs. P >>>> from the UKBA please see attachment (complaint reference 40>>>) Apparently this was passed on to her from a minister, rather than treat it as a parliamentary complaint as I requested! The reason I asked for this to be treated as a parliamentary complaint was because the ukba was refusing to respond to any requests of clarification in regards to them following the rule of law and charging the correct rate of vat on numismatic collector’s items, but also because the Ukba was not responding to complaints in line with their own guidelines. This response from the ukba in no way answers any of the important questions that I have raised firstly in my original complaint letter or now in my parliamentary complaint. In regards to the ukba’s response which I have just received, it seems they are only addressing the issue of the 3 parcels that I have received and completely ignoring the more important issues that I have raised regarding their fraudulent behavior, lack of accountability, failure to comply with the rule of law, knock on effects to other services and general unwillingness to correct the problems that they themselves are deliberately causing. With this in mind I hardly feel this response from ukba warrants any serious reply however I will reply if for no other reason than for my own personal amusement below. The first parcel is not in question! The second parcel in which Mrs. >>>> upholds my complaint is in actual fact the parcel where samples were included and not the third parcel as she mentions! See attachment (2nd parcel) If you’re looking at the attached scan your see that it clearly has the correct code of 9705000000 and x 25 items at a cost of £546. Underneath this is then the reference to sample coins x 3 = N/A The third parcel DID NOT HAVE SAMPLE COINS ON THE CUSTOMS DECLARATION! It only had the classification code of 9705000000, so this statement by the relevant officer mentioned was false! As I mentioned in my complaint the customs declaration on the third parcel was not on the package when it arrived but the supplier did inform me that they had put this code and only this code on the package just like they have done with this my 4th package please see attachment (new parcel) This package arrived this week, and was naturally overcharged at the 20% vat rate yet again! So obviously nothing has changed at the ukba Langley depot! Nor is it likely to change if they are not held to account and forced to desist from their deliberate fraudulent activity! Moving on let me be perfectly clear I have no interest in going through the ukba complaints process, they have made it perfectly clear that they are unwilling to respond to the various questions I have raised over their conduct! They have however dealt with all my refunds, even in regards to this new parcel to which I have already received a letter of refund confirmation in the amazing time frame of less than 5 days since posting my bor286 refund request to them (Thanks for this to Karen >>>> the correspondence manager in Coventry). I say Amazing because of the massive backlog in refund requests that the ukba themselves have caused due to overcharging the British public, I suspect they are now up to the beginning of march in regards to this backlog and I thank them for not putting me through another 3 months of aggravation in contrast to the possible 3 to 6 months that any other citizen in this country is having to wait to get a response from them. Let me sum it up again: 1, they obviously know that they should only be charging 5% vat and judging from this response letter so do the employee’s on the frontline at the Langley depot. Which begs the question why are they still charging 20% vat on parcels with the correct specification code? IT is obvious to me that this deliberate overcharging and avoidance or addressing the issues is taking place so as to defraud the general public out of money! Surely just following the law and charging the correct vat rate instead of overcharging and creating a massive backlog of complaints due to their own fraudulent behavior cannot be that hard to correct! 2, the truth of the matter is this; at any point over the last 4 months the ukba could and should have corrected this problem, not only for the benefit of the British population who keep getting overcharged but also for themselves to nip the backlog and knock on effects in the bud! Sadly all they seem to be doing is at best ignoring the problem and doing everything in their power to undermine any discussion as to how to follow the rule of law and do their job. As far as I am concerned when it gets to the point that the only defense they have is statements like “due to the massive backlog and internal problems that we have created we apologize for any inconvenience caused” then it’s beyond a joke and seems pretty clear that the only logical explanation for why this is continuing is because it’s part of a deliberate policy of committing fraud! Yes they have refunded me my money and yes I am sure that I will get my refunds on any imports in the future again but I am not willing to sit back and allow them to commit fraud on the general population who are unable to find out this information or spend as much time as I have forcing them to do what they should be doing in the first place! I want answers! I want to read that the ukba in Langley will respect the rule of law and charge vat on numismatic imports at the correct rate at the point of import without forcing people to jump through hoops, without them having to send in refund requests for money that they should never have had to pay in the first place! I want to read that any problems that might be stopping this from happening will now be fixed or that employee’s who obviously know this is an issue, will from now charge the correct rate straight away rather than overcharge deliberately in the hope that most people will not bother in requesting a refund and though pretend ignorance financially benefit the ukba from this obvious fraud. So with all due respect could you now please pass my complaint onto the parliamentary ombudsman, if this is not possible please let me know why? In the mean time I will be passing all this information on to Nick Brown mp and also a reporter who I have spoken to from the guardian. Sincerely Martin >>>>>> http://silvertrader.ebid.net/

Border Force Complaints Team Priory Court St John’s Road Dover Kent CT17 9SH Email borderforcecomplaints@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk Web www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk Mr M >>>>>>>>> Email: >>>>>>>>>>>>@hotmail.co.uk Date 24 June 2013 Accredited to the Customer Service Excellence standard Our Ref 409>> and TO18>>>>4 Your Ref: AR5>>>>>>>GB, AD3>>>>>>>GB and AR53>>>>>>GB Dear Mr >>>>>>>> Thank you for your correspondence sent to the Border Force Complaints Team and to the Immigration Minister. This has been passed to me as the officer responsible for handling your complaint. Before I respond to your specific concerns regarding the above parcels, I would like to assure you all complaints about our staff and the level of service provided by Border Force are treated seriously. Furthermore, such complaints are used as an opportunity to learn and improve services. If you believe your complaint has not been dealt with in the right way you may write to us at the address above and a complaints manager will check the process used to look into your complaint, to ensure it was both appropriate and followed correctly. You must do this within one month of the date of this letter. In line with our usual procedures, which are set out in detail at http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/ab...kingacomplaint, I have asked the operational manager at the Coventry International Hub (CIH) to assess the circumstances relating to the matter you have complained about. With this work now complete, I have based my response on their findings. I hope my reply helps you to understand the reasons why. Parcel reference, AR53>>>>>>>GB was correctly charged on 20% VAT at the time of import. I am therefore not upholding this particular aspect of your complaint. You advised Border Force the exporter had entered the wrong commodity code on the declaration. You provided further information received by CIH on 22 March 2013 substantiating this and enabled them to process a part refund for the sum of £67.50. The payment was processed on the 17 May 2013 and you should receive a payable order within 30 working days. I am advised Parcel reference, AD3>>>>>>>GB was incorrectly charged on 20% VAT at the time of import despite a commodity code on the declaration to levy 5% VAT. I am upholding this element of your complaint and I am sorry for any inconvenience caused by this error. The further information received from you on 22 March 2013 meant CIH could process a part refund for the sum of £144.75. This was also processed on 17 May 2013 and a payable order should be received by you within 30 working days. It has been determined that parcel reference, AR53>>>>>>>GB was charged levying 20% VAT. Unfortunately the operational manager at CIH has been unable to view the declaration for this parcel. However, a Border Force officer at CIH at the time of import did make a note advising the contents of the parcel was declared as ‘sample coins’. I should explain sample coins would not attract 5% VAT so CIH acted correctly by applying 20% VAT charge on this parcel. I cannot for this reason uphold this element of your complaint. CIH has determined from the correspondence forwarded to and received by the Border Force Complaint Team that you are entitled to a part refund for the sum of £81.35 for parcel reference, AR3>>>>GB. They processed this on 30 May 2013 and you should receive the payable order within 30 days. I understand the part refund for parcel reference AR53>>>>>GB was not processed within agreed timescales. I am therefore upholding this element of your complaint. I should explain CIH aims to provide a full response to its customers within 20 working days. However, they are currently experiencing a high level of correspondence. Senior managers are aware customers are not always receiving the level of service they should expect. I am sorry for any inconvenience and upset caused by the delay. At present CIH is unable to receive email correspondence. However, the National Advice Service (NAS) handles telephone queries on postal imports and will contact CIH on behalf of the customer for clarification if required. Should you wish to contact NAS you may do so by telephoning 0845 010 9000. I hope my reply has clarified the position. The Border Force complaints team are keen to continually review and improve our services. To help us do so, we would be grateful if you could complete a short online survey. Please access the survey using the following link: http://feedback.ukba.homeoffice.gov....p?i=35927hosbt Yours sincerely Mrs P >>>>>>> Complaints Officer