jaggy

Sorry about that. I should have tested them before posting. Here they are ..... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/angela-merkel-to-oust-jean-claude-juncker-as-europe-splits-deepe/ https://euobserver.com/institutional/134177 http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/685809/EU-referendum-Angela-Merkel-sack-Brussels-chief-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Brexit-gloating

Looks like Juncker could be on his way out: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/angela-merkel-to-oust-jean-claude-juncker-as-europe-splits-deepe/ https://euobserver.com/institutional/134177 http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/685809/EU-referendum-Angela-Merkel-sack-Brussels-chief-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Brexit-gloating Getting rid of Juncker is the first step towards a negotiated solution.

I don't think the UK believes the "UK is for pure breeds only". There is concern over immigration because of the scale of it; 350,000 net/year. And that concern really has not been dealt with by politicians. The concern has been exacerbated by Germany unilaterally tearing up the Dublin system to invite around 1,000,000 refugees into the EU and then by the EU demanding that other EU countries admit a quota of those refugees that Germany invited in. In addition, having the French authorities tolerate a camp of would be illegal immigrants in Calais has not improved trust of the EU in this area. Concern over immigration is not racist. It is perfectly legitimate. In the USA, the issue is not over immigration per se but over illegal immigration of which the USA has twice as much in percentage terms as the UK. The estimate is that there are around 11.4 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Once again, this is an issue that politicians have failed to tackle and which has opened the door wide to Trump's rhetoric. Shouting 'racism' only serves to shut down discussion. It does not make legitimate issues or concerns go away but it does serve as an entry point for more extreme politicians. What people are hearing from the EU is that "we don't care about your concerns or your issues, do it our way or you will be punished by denying access to the single market".

I don't think that Germany's historical guilt over Hitler is a good indicator for what is happening in the UK today.

I don't think you can take one incident - or even a few incidents - and then extrapolate it to represent the whole of British society.

Accusations of racism are really just a not very elegant way of shutting down discussion.

Seriously, trying to equate this vote with the rise of Hitler in Germany is deeply insulting to the British electorate and just demonstrates that you don't really have any substantive arguments left. Your hyperbole is merely a symptom of the paucity of your position. No doubt Germany is still trying to live down its Nazi and authoritarian past. That is not the case for the UK. As to your last point, how negotiations develop remains (sic) to be seen.

Seems to me that 52% of the electorate voted in a free and democratic election to leave the EU and that result should be respected. That people on the losing side or other EU countries are unhappy about that is neither here nor there. The French and others, we are told, want Britain out as soon as possible. However, they don't get to choose. The UK should invoke Article 50 when it suits us and not when it suits them. The limbo that the EU is now in and the negative political impact on countries like France who have a strong Eurosceptic movement is the UK's best negotiating lever available. This is not a time for emotion but rather for cold hard political calculation.

Trump is riding the same kind of emotion that fueled much of the Brexit vote; a total distrust of the political establishment and a feeling that society and the economy has passed them by. I rather suspect that some of the European leaders are fearful that a similar movement might unseat them and especially after the UK voted for Brexit.

I'm not sure the people who sent the 'Whatsapp' are bright enough to realise that.

Truth is that Germany dominates the EU both politically and economically. However, if the UK does exit the EU, that will be damaging for Germany. In many respects, the EU and the UK were alike in terms of their economic outlook and, between them, both essentially funded the EU. With Britain gone, it will be up to Germany to fund the EU and it will be up to Germany to deal with a political reality whereby most of the other EU countries are more interested in redistributing Germany's wealth to themselves than in actually contributing to the economic prosperity of the bloc. Even northern European countries don't contribute that much. Belgium benefits hugely from having the EU bureaucracy while both Luxembourg, Ireland and the Netherlands are only competitive by offering huge tax breaks to multinationals that undercut their European 'partners'. Harmonise taxes and watch that lot squeal. Frankly, the best thing for Germany is to cut a deal which keeps the UK in. However, I'm not sure that Germany has the political confidence to actually bring the rest of the EU countries into line.

The EU and the ECHR are two different things and there is no institutional link between them. The ECHR is the judicial body of the Council of Europe. The UK can continue to recognise the ECHR despite no longer being a member of the EU.

My prediction - which I certainly made elsewhere and possibly on here too - is that, sooner or later, the EU is going to come back to the negotiating table. Some more concessions will be made and a second referendum on the basis of those concessions will be held. Britain will vote to Remain and life will go on. In the meantime, stocks and the pound are looking cheap. Buying opportunity!

Except that they are not going to get article 50 at once. Wanting is not getting as I used to tell my children.

Lots of headless chickens running around at the moment and the pavement is strewn with dummies that have been spat out and toys launched from collective prams.First things first, this was a non-binding referendum so it is now up to Parliament to take the next steps. That means sorting out the political crisis in both the Conservative and Labour parties.Then calm heads in government need to start working through how they want things to happen going forward. And calm heads in the EU need to start talking to the UK government as well. There is a lot to be done before Article 50 notice is given.Some at the EU seems to be in a big hurry for the UK to give notice. That is because they all have elections coming up and are scared shitless of their own Eurosceptics. Others, Juncker to the fore, seem determined to try to punish the UK in a spiteful and vengeful way. Well, screw them. The UK should give notice when it suits the UK and not when it suits them. And until that happens, they need to continue treating the UK as a full EU member, which we are. And, if they don't, we start withholding payments to their budget amongst other measures. Time to play hardball.

On a coin related topic, I think I might start paying for my UK purchases in dollars rather than from my UK accounts given the drop in the pound. The 3% premium is looking quite cheap at the moment.

Indeed. Which is why I will never de-slab a coin unless my own appreciation of grade is higher than that of the grading company.

Scotland isn't going anywhere because the fundamental problems that led to a No vote in the referendum have still not been resolved by the SNP.

This is from a blog I follow: Here’s what Boris Johnson wrote back in February He may have had in mind the second Irish referendum on the Lisbon treaty which followed after the Irish voted ‘no’ in the first – and secured further concessions from the other Member States. “Say ‘no’ for a better ‘yes'” isn’t bad as a negotiating ploy. But it’s not much of a campaigning slogan. The Leave camp ditched it for ‘Take Back Control’. And the rest is recent history.

In my opinion, once the dust has settled and calmer counsels have time to assert themselves, the EU are going to negotiate a revised arrangement with the UK which will both meet some of the concerns that led to a Leave vote while retaining the UK in the EU. There will, in the fullness of time, be a second referendum to vote on that. This, of course, was the approach taken with both Ireland and Denmark when these countries voted against the prevailing wisdom. So the EU does have form.

You would be incorrect in that assumption.

Too many toys being thrown out of the pram by the losers. It would appear that democracy is only good when you win. The result is what it is. Deal with it.

Maybe Boris will run for President one day .... or perhaps be Trump's running mate.

So "older people" are not part of the "people" (as in "will of the people")? Perhaps they should only allow the 18-45 year olds to vote in that case.

To quote Rees-Mogg from last night, "if the EU is the type of club that, if you want to leave, they kneecap you then why would you want to be part of it? It's like the mafia."