Paddy

An interesting thought arises from this discussion: There are effectively two ways of leaving a commission these days at most auctions - by contacting the auction house and leaving a bid in the traditional way, or by using an "autobid" through an online bidding engine such as Saleroom.com or Easyliveauctions. I would suggest you are safer with the latter as the auction house has no knowledge of your maximum bid or how many other bidders have left bids - the system just bids on each and everyone's behalf up to their maximum. The opportunity for a crooked auctioneer to start at a single bidder's top price is removed completely, and they run a risk if they take bids off the wall of finding they have over-run the limit and are left with the lot and no bidder. LCA do not have an autobid facility through their website, which will always leave them open to accusations of sharp practice. One wonders why?

Yes - but if your bid is the only commission bid he has it should start with something like "I have £300 with me..." and then each time another bid comes in, online or in the room, he can take the next increment "with me" until your bid is passed. At any point that the others give up, that is the price you should get it for. If he has two or more advance bids, then he starts at the first bid that clears the others. If he starts at £2000 when yours is the only bid he has then he is breaking the law and risks losing his auctioneer's licence or worse. If he starts at £300, has no bidders online or in the room and starts taking non existing bids to try to bump the price up to your bid, he is also breaking the law - this is referred to as "taking bids off the wall". Some auction houses have bad reputations for either of these illegal practices and regular bidders avoid leaving bids with them.

If there were no other bids you should get it at the start price or reserve price! No matter how high the commission bids auctioneers are legally obliged to sell at the lowest possible amount. With an estimate of £300 to £400 it would imply that the reserve is around £300 or less (they are not allowed to have a reserve more than 10% over the lower estimate I believe), so with no other bidding you should get it for around £300. The only way you should be paying £1900 is if another bidder has put in a bid of £1800. (Or, to be pedantic, one of £1900 but lodged after yours.)

Whilst the listing annoys me and gives me no respect whatsoever for the seller, I would also say that any buyer sending off his £3.99 expecting to get an Uncirculated 1911 Penny is naive in the extreme. Maybe they would at least learn the lesson to read the description properly in the future! Caveat Emptor.

Any chance I could have a copy of the Dracott article too? I have tried searching through old posts on the forum and Dracott is mentioned all over the place but the downloads seem to have been tidied away. Cheers

I can't see it as reverse F - the hair on Britannia's neck is too small and not forming a line towards the shoulder. The ship is too well struck for a D, so we are left with E or G. Either the LCW is worn off and it is E (can I see a ghost of the W over the 6?) or it is a G and the door is what has worn off...

As you know I am relatively new to this variety business, but for what it's worth I think I agree on both those. F282 is Dies 7+G. Obverse 7 has the fourth leaf in the third lot down, which yours has. Reverse G has the door on the lighthouse, which yours does. F321 is dies 11+J. Reverse - it can only be J or L and L has the H of Halfpenny much closer to the lighthouse. With reverse J it can only be obverse 11 or 13, and the rose is too indistinct (I think) to be 13. Most of the other distinguishing features are worn away so only a best guess. ... but feel free to correct me!

Hopefully it was because he was being detained at the pleasure of Her Majesty... 😉

This one amused me today:

Final update - Annual report is due out in the week commencing 3rd September.

I raised the question of inaccurate figures with the RM and got this response: "Good afternoon Paddy, All 2017 mintage figures will be updated on the website following the release of our Annual Report. Kind regards, Ceri Ceri Davies UK Account Manager" I raised the query again regarding the 2016 figures being incorrect for the £1 coins and got: "Yes, we will ensure these are updated the same time. Kind regards, Ceri" So here is hoping!

Yes - sadly very common. As a part time seller at markets I am delighted if I can get £1 for them. It is the usual problem of supply and demand - there are millions of them out there and very few people who want them.

Extreme angle is correct. Reads "Foundation of Liberty". No idea why they went for italics!

It's been removed already.

You may be right, but as they delay releasing the figures until at least a year later now, they ought to be more up to date. It certainly doesn't explain why 2016 One Pound coins are not listed at all, two years after the event. I emailed the Royal Mint and got a standard "Thank you for your interest and I have passed the buck" message back from Lewis.

Am I right in saying all the smaller 2017 coins are pretty thin on the ground? I see I have none yet below the 50ps and even Ebay seems pretty sparse for them - a few very expensive and that is it.

I am beginning to doubt all the figures released by the Royal Mint on their website. I was looking at the numbers for 2017 50ps - according to their list there were no Royal Shield ones that year - but I have one and I don't believe they are rare. Mine did not come out of a set I am pretty sure - I picked it up in loose change last year. So what is going on? PS - I also see that they say no £1 coins were issued in 2016, just 640 million of the new ones in 2017. We all no that is wrong. 😕

I think you will find the same problem with 2017 2p - still haven't seen one yet in any grade.

I think the point everyone over here is trying to make is that for the vast majority of dealers in the UK, they are too small to be VAT registered and so there is nothing to claim back. The only exceptions I think would be Coincraft and some of the commemorative producers like Westminster, but I can see no reason to buy from them. If you buy from an auction house, the big ones can probably handle the VAT return, the little ones probably not - but you are dealing with 20% of say 25% of the hammer price - so a much smaller overall percentage.

Just to clarify as the VAT discussion has got confused over several posts: In the UK an auction house selling coins will add VAT to the buyers premium only. Most auction items are exempt VAT on the value of the item itself if second hand. You can occasionally find an auction house that is too new/small to be VAT registered yet - usually small and local. A new one set up within a few hundred yards of where I live a few weeks ago and their commission was 15% with no VAT to add. Bliss! Sadly the few coins they had were C**p.

Ah yes - but that one is 1923 and it is 1932 I need to upgrade... 😊

This one needs a long lesson in grading I think. This is the coin that attracted my attention but when you look at her others, she is consistently 2 or 3 grades out if not more. Grrr! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1932-GEORGE-V-SILVER-FLORIN-EF-SPINK-S4038-ESC-952-NICE-COIN-AND-RARE/352419988545?hash=item520dde4441:g:iC0AAOSw~AVYqTqj

This is now spoken for.

I think the only substantially scarce 2p is the 1983 with New Pence instead of Two Pence. Some other dates were issued in sets only - 1972, 1973, 1974, 1982, 1983, 1984 - I think, and are so a little scarcer than normal. The tales of the 1971 being scarce are a classic case of "Fake news". I am leaving out proofs and trail coins - that is a different area all together.