RChris

Thought not - I am learning then

A few nice examples but nothing rare or worth much past £20 really? Or am I missing something? http://www.ebay.com/itm/370861043107?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Sure, full english included ......but the hotel does a breakfast buffet if you're there early enough. They do coffee in the dealers room and the hotel bar does food, tea, coffee & booze but all at hotel prices of course.

I'll be at Wakefield on Sunday. Always about 40 dealers there (and Ms Cretin). Nice hotel just a minute off J39 M1. A quid to get in.

Any of you get to York this weekend? I planned to but kidney stones kept me away I just wondered if it was busy or not and if anyone found anything good? I bet it was hot in there....

Thanks for the heads up Bob.

Thanks - I get it....I'm not going to buy it, obviously. I'm learning as I go. No doubt I'll be back for more advice soon.

Well & truly and I'm very grateful for all your input. Shows how a novice can be fleeced I suppose. But that's why I asked.... John Argentum asks why would I want it? Because it's what I like/collect/am interested in - why else? As you say - each to his own. Anything wrong with that? I don't collect proof or pattern Soho types or Moore patterns or even Victorian pennies so why should I look for one just because you think I should? I can't be happier with something that doesn't float my boat. I just saw this (so called) 1963 proof and as it's relevant to what interests me and what I collect, I thought I'd enquire about it. And also why I asked my peers - because I wanted to know if I was doing the right thing or not and as it turns out, (obviously) not. So mission accomplished for me. Anyway, an FYI for all, this is the dealer concerned. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/THE-BAY-PEDDLER/3-British-Coins-/_i.html?_fsub=12784226&_sid=214798585&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Asking for slabbing included is a good idea. It's $1500 USD if that makes it any better.....

Thanks for your comments to my post - as a novice It's better to ask than get burned. I got the guy to send better pictures so can you cast your eye over these and let me know if you still don't think it's a proof. I doubt these pics will make any of you change your mind about it. Even to me it looks like a good ordinary penny. But why is he so sure (probably in all good faith or am I being naive?) it is? So a question; If there are only 2-5 known, how many people have ever had one in hand to know what they should look like? Even the '37, '50, '51 & '53 proofs are never like the 1970 for example - which to my eye always looks like something out of a Lucky Bag - too blingy in modern parlence. I've seen a few of the older proofs and they often need tilting or turning and a good looking at to be sure. No names of course but I quoted him some of the forum comments......he replies: "We're known off of eBay (and aside from our international sales company Prestigious Sales) as GBC coins (Great Britain Coins). We may be the largest British Coin Dealer in the World - working with coins now for nearly 65 years. . . but what would we know?" I doubt very much I'll buy the coin anyway - he's asking $1500.00 !!

Thanks chaps - I'm really glad I asked. I'll tell him "my" concerns and at least try to get some better pics of it.

I tried to edit that but made a balls of it and now the system won't let me edit at all.....

You could say the same about Stephens 1964 here http://www.mycoincollection.co.uk/page12.html

Not the best picture when enclosed like that obviously, but it looks kosher to me.....he's a respected US dealer.

1963 proof penny. These are pics sent to me by the dealer. Not yet acquired but I have the opportunity. I'd just like advice please on how much I should pay for it?

Whatever, it's for sale or exchange. PM me if anyone is interested.

Yes, the lettering seems deeper & sharper than the kings head does...... Thanks Rob - I never considered it could just be an odd bit of scrap used. Maybe a trial gone wrong before they start production? Or some idiot arsing around......

Would someone please enlighten me as to what exactly I have here? I'm thinking farthing obverse brockage on a halfpenny blank. But the weight is 4.2g and dia is 24mm - so I'm just not sure.

Pictures speak a thousand words! Bring it on Peter....... I've got a major task it setting up a system for good photography (better than ebay quality) I have bought cameras and LED lights...now practice In my experience, you'll want to keep LED lights as far away from coins as you can manage. Most decent cameras will make use of even a small amount of light, as long as it exceeds the minimum required - the only issue is white-balance. In this respect, I have found that low-power Compact Fluorescent bulbs make an almost ideal light source. Can anything beat natural daylight?

So there's alleged, IF and WERE.... still opinion from supposition. I'll really have to ask my mechanic next door neighbour to get me some of that battery acid. Watch this space. No one has commented on my suggestion of the possibility of weak and/or uneven strikes due to thin flans caused by the use of over-pressed-too-thin sheets of metal. Is that idea impossible? Numquam credere peritus

I must be out of my depth here....I just Googled Crippen Syndrome having not a clue what it is - and still can't see how it relates to this. Sorry (there's no emotion for embarrassed or red faced!)

Not at all Gary - 7 quid..... but I did suspect that might be thought a reason for my reluctance to accept the views of those who've more experience than I. I guess I asked for opinions at the start of this thread and I'm not complaining that's just what I've got - opinions, of which I'm very grateful.

I still don't hear any proof of that though....and he talks about things coming loose in the stamping process, so that's waht this looks like to me. It might also be some kind of mechanical doubling mentioned here; http://jimscoins.com/error_coin_examples.php

Thanks for that Rob - although I'm not so well educated as I had to look up what a homogenous crystal lattice is! I respect your opinion and expereince of course, but I'm still not convinced without actually seeing the "acid test" (pun intended) for myself. I have a few thin flan/planchet pennies from different reigns - some with your proposed acid effect but others slightly crisper and without it. Being more practical than academic I assumed that thin blanks are simply the cause of the sheet of metal they are stamped from being rolled beyond the correct thickness. Anyhow, I looked around and found this on the interweb, from a guy who has installed coinage presses, maintained them, worked as a die setter and trained personnel in coining operations. His explanations of causes work for me. http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/TrialorWeakStrkMoffatt

Would you mind explaining further Rob? Acid when, where, how? Mistake during manufacture or collector cleaning attempt? Neither. Dissolving coins in acid seems to have been quite a common prank in times gone by, when boys could walk into a shop and buy quite volatile ingredients for their "chemistry set" I've got a 1929 shilling that suffered this, and I have to say that acid was my first reaction on seeing your pictures. The first one is more interesting to me, as the grease has allowed the ghost of BRITT to appear, but whatever is where GRA should be, is something else entirely. So you're saying there could have been a blob of grease next to.....? Maybe a thicker blob of grease? I appreciate your replies chaps - but as a novice I haven't yet heard what seem to be facts, just your opinions? But maybe unless it's an obvious die crack or lamination issue, opinions are only what can be offered? For example, Rob offers a few ideas as to what may have caused the issues with this penny - and was Peckris there to witness his 1929 shilling getting an acid bath? Or has he experiemented with acid on a similar coin? Just playing devil's advocate guys, not trying to be a smartarse......but I'm hoping to learn here and have a good few more years with this hobby.