Red Riley

This adds a completely different dimension. It's not only provenance, but it adds to the history of numismatics as well. Perhaps we should all write something like this when we sell a coin. Sadly I don't think many of our missives would survive though.

These are nice, but for me a good early bun penny is about as good as it gets. Unfortunately, neither Bristol nor Sheffield are anywhere near me. Since the two towns cover nearly a million people, there must be somebody on this forum who knows.

I can't see any evidence from the photograph, but that might just be that it isn't detailed enough. Really needs to be looked at in a strong light and moved around to highlight anything going on under the 3. These overdates can sometimes be very difficult to see.

Well that didn't work did it? I tried to use multi-quote but without success so for my last post, see green box above. Can somebody tell this technophobe how to use it? I'm much more comfortable with a torque wrench and a pair of stilsons...

Yes, it tees me off too, and not only for the reason you state. As you say, a coin is either FDC or it isn't and most coins advertised as such, bearing in mind even the slightest hairline scratch would disqualify them, just aren't. At one time the expression 'proof impaired' was used but now seems to have gone out of use. If we were really being strict about it, almost nothing would qualify and if a coin was over say, 50 years old, forget it! The American Sheldon Scale takes the problem and throttles it to death with no less than eleven levels of condition (PR60-70) being used to sort the proof wheat from the chaff. Call me old fashioned though, but the Sheldon Scale just seems to lack the romance present in the traditional system and it would be a cold day in hell when I describe a coin as PR68 or whatever!

Both are technically gobbledygook as, to the man on the Clapham omnibus they mean nothing whatever (and surely it isn't possible to have a preposition describing an adjective?!). In UK grading 'About Uncirculated' still means that the coin has not hit Tesco's till but may have led a hard life at the mint or in less than ideal storage conditions. They are the equivalent of the American MS60-62. Its very lack of sense actually makes it less misleading than say, 'very good' and as such it is a useful grade to slot above GEF. I can't begin to get my head round 'About Brilliant Uncirculated' though...

I said as much in the grading book. In fact your rant is pretty much a 'toned up' version (would I expect anything less!) of what I said. There are problems with Michael Gouby's technique though, particularly where it comes to subdued lustre but it's light years ahead of all the nonsense that surrounds BU. Certainly, I will be adopting the system.

Didn't think of it like that!

Is it just me, or is e-bay not the best place to sell such things. Fair dos though, this guy's coming up with some interesting stuff.

Another interesting coin from the same seller; http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270606330709&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I can't be bothered to 'improve' it with photoshop, but it does look quite nasty and almost looks like it's been cast. Strange...

Welcome Bob (a few of those too!). Sorry about the silence; for me, Lockdale's Coin Auction and football plus getting blatted during the latter...

Hi Rob (we've got a few of those), welcome to the forum. Yep, unless my eyes are playing me up it's a 2d, which is a lot rare than the 1d. From what I can see, the grades are VF for the obverse and GVF for the reverse. The coin is not perfect though, as the edge knocks and the staining on the obverse detract. The 50p sounds like 'go away, I've got enough of those'. You could do far better and I would reckon you should get about £40 if you were to sell it on e-bay.

GVF for me too. The ultimate price of something like this is entirely unpredictable. I will be watching with interest...

And you criticized me for drinking ESB! Must have been a nice view from the gutter...

And badly in need of help...

This could have significant implications for online sellers/purchasers; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10560466.stm

I'm quite surprised that anyone's gone to the trouble (albeit not much trouble, given the quality) of faking 20ps when £1s can't be that much more difficult but yield more profit. But then that's nothing new: in a bulk lot I acquired the other day was a lead 1908 1d forgery. It's also not new for forgers to be ignorant of numismatic details, as they are with the numerous mismatches between date, reverse and edge inscription on forged £1s. I have an, er, object that appears to be trying to be a 5th issue Elizabeth I shilling. As well as clearly not being made of silver, it has a date (1578), which unless I've misread Seaby it shouldn't have. Think we've discussed these before. If my memory serves me correctly, the finger pointed to a company in Dover that made this sort of thing not more than 20 years ago.

Of course Dave, no problem. You may however find it easier to forego a week's coin purchases and buy Michael Gouby's 'The British Bronze Penny 1860 to 1970'. Due to it's arrangement, I actually find this easier than Michael Freeman's own book, and 'F' numbers are included. Can't remember how much it is, but probably no more than an AU Edward VII penny!

The wonky B did it for me.

I hate identifying these! All things considered, I make it F10 even though I can't see the signature on the cape.

Quite the worst strike I have seen is a 1918 Royal Mint obverse shown on p.18 of the grading guide (sorry, couldn't resist the plug!). If it didn't have lustre, you could be forgiven for thinking it was no better than 'fine'. Reverses are often poorly struck around Britannia's right shoulder. The mintage in 1913 at 65m was a record but was succesively broken in 1916 (86m), 1917 (107m), 1919 (113m) and 1920 (124m) so sheer weight of numbers probably had something to do with it. 1921 pushed the record up again (129m) but by then there were probably enough Dreadnoughts in the scrapyards to make as many dies as the mint wanted and the products were of a much higher quality.

The last photo you posted came out rather small, so difficult to tell. The telltale is the fingerprint on Britannia's left. Also, and rather unusually, the last photo you posted seems to show heavy ghosting.

I think this is very plausible. Something new tends to galvanise people into not only putting aside an example of the new design but saving one of the old ones too. Could this be the reason why the easiest bun penny in BU is 1887?

In my wife's family, the tradition was to keep a penny or a larger set of coins for the year of a child's birth. This is something which we have continued with our kids and if a friend has a child, then they get an uncirculated mint set from me! OK, a bit off the subject, but if this was a widespread practice then it would account for a large number of survivals in high grade.