Red Riley

Hi Jimmy, welcome to the forum. Personally I use the Lindner sets, although some of mine are looking a bit dog-eared now. Squeezing coins out of sticky plastic envelopes never ranked terribly highly on my list of tactile experiences, so I abandoned that method a good many years ago. I guess it really comes down to your budget, with coin albums being at the lower end and coin cabinets at the upper. Lindner sets, for me, are a happy compromise.

It's just a girl... actually it's a painting called 'Proserpine' by Gabriel Rossetti. In classical mythology Proserpine was the daughter of Ceres and was abducted to the underworld by Pluto but later freed by the gods. Because she had eaten a mouthful of pomegranate while in Haedes, the gods ruled that she would have to spend half of the year in the underworld. The model was Janey Morris, one of the great beauties of the 19th century and also Rossetti's lover. Buggerall to do with coins but hey, I'm not a one trick pony! The reason I changed was because a woman at work saw my old Avatar and described it as simply a lady with no clothes on. My protestations that it was actually great art fell on deaf ears, so after due consideration I changed to this more um... acceptable image. What's the story behind yours?

I often bang on on here about the historic value being more important than the monetary value, and this is a case in point. Probably worth peanuts but tells you so much about public opinion at the time. Thanks for posting it.

These sort of things were frequently produced in the late 18th and early 19th centuries to espouse some political cause or another, a well known example being those minted in support of the anti-slavery movement ('am I not a man and a brother?'). This particular one was produced outside the period we normally associate with the circulation of tradesmen's tokens, although I suppose it may have had a redeemable value somewhere (a farthing?) but I couldn't imagine it being widely used. Others may know more.

If 'nearly part of the furniture' is for fairly prolific posters, then perhaps the next stage up should be 'three legged occasional table' or 'Edwardian dumb waiter'. Just a thought...

I'm trying to work out what has been done. 1869 dates are generally well alligned (unlike say 1860s) and the obverse is generally correct for 1860-74. The normal trick is to lower the entire exergue and the 'fuzz' around the 1 and the 8 seem to bear this out. The only logical numeral to change is the 9 but this actually looks better than the 6. I'm at a loss.

The good thing about bun pennies is that you can build up a fairly complete collection quite quickly and cheaply, whilst retaining a long term plan to improve the qualty. Only the obvious (1869, 1871, 1875H and a few varieties) should cost more than a few pence in low grade. With the advent of e-bay you are unlikely to lose much more than postage on an upgrade. Bargains can be had too - 4 years ago I bought an 1875H in GVF+ for £31; looking at Michael Gouby's website, I notice he has a very similar coin for £750!

Re 1940 penny, you'd probably need to post a close-up of the exergue line. When you know whay you're looking for, it's quite obvious - all pre-1940 pennies by the way, are single line and all post-1940s double line, so you can compare say a 1937 and a 1948 to establish the difference. If my memory serves me correctly, the single line is the scarcer by some way.

You would be able to tell narrow/wide date, Heaton mint, 1860, 1874 or 1881 portrait, flat/convex shield; you may even be able to tell 1865 5 over 3. I am surprised that you can see the signature under a portrait in poor condition, but will take your word for it!

As an erstwhile penny collector, perhaps the best thing I can do is simply to state what I have done. I have 120 bronze pennies, dates and varieties. That is all I want, the more esoteric varieties do not interest me. However, that 120 does include a narrow date 1879 and several other narrow date varieties. When I started collecting coins, I used the Coin Monthly year book as my bible - this publication included a random selection of varieties, such as '1860 LCW below foot', '1881 new portrait' etc. etc. but not narrow/wide dates, so initially I didn't collect them. My coin collecting activities then went into abeyance with family commitments etc. When I returned to the fold, the published variety pecking order had changed and narrow/wide dates were now accepted varieties, so I looked out for, and bought them. I personally would regard the narrow/wide dates as 'key' varieties for the simple reason that they are collectable right the way down the grading scale, whereas the '1860 LCW under foot' has to be above VF for the distinction to become apparent. The crunch comes with 1874 where varieties fly in all diections, with 4 distinct (i.e. recognisable right down to 'poor') reverses and 2 all-grade obverses. So perhaps that's my criteria, 'Is the variety recognisable in poor condition?' If so, collect it (in better than 'poor' obviously!). The years where I have more than one variety are as follows: 1860 (2) 1861 (2) 1864 (2) 1865 (2) 1874 (8) 1875 (3) 1876 (2) 1879 (2) 1881 (3) 1895 (2) 1902 (2) 1912 (2) 1918 (3) 1919 (3) 1926 (2) 1940 (2) Everybody will make up their own criteria, but that's mine - and I still don't have an '1860 LCW under foot'!

This is a topic that's been on here before. I get the impression that the number of collectors in the UK has increased substantially over the last few years, but still we haven't got a magazine that even comes close to giving us what we want, which is sad. Last time round if I remember rightly, we came to the conclusion that it would just be too much hassle to produce one from scratch.

I would guess that's about the going rate. Certainly doesn't look a bargain.

I think I agree with you, but I'm afraid that I don't like and never have liked the BU grade and seldom use the term myself. I have seen coins in this condition, straight out of the mint and with no handling whatever - but anything of any age which has not been tampered with will have fallen below that category unless it's been stored in outer space for its whole life. In my view, any grading system falls down once we establish that a coin has not been circulated. With base metal, indicating a percentage of lustre can help, but what of coins where the lustre has dulled uniformly, what of silver? I have gone off at a slight tangent, but returning to the main point, don't try too hard to ascribe a grade to an unworn coin, just describe what you see, oh, and include a photograph!

Hi Rev, with your interests, you should have a lot to say. Your location reminds me that on my first date with a real live female of the species, I took her to see a film called 'Goodbye Columbus'. Ah, happy days!

Yes, once again sorry to hear of your loss. In addition to what others have said, a few things have value - the KN pennies, the groats (4d) and surprisingly the Whitman folders which in some instances have more value than the coins they contain! I have checked the pennies themselves and nothing seems to stand out as an obvious rarity but they are worn and it is still possible, if unlikely. The proof sets will always go for something but realistically you aren't looking at a huge total.

You could bury it in the garden for a year or so (tip: remember where you buried it). Another idea I have heard is to bake it in a potato. You could also try the toning fluid Tourmaline, but I'm not sure how well it works on silver.

I think I agree with you. 'BBitanniar' and the like are interesting as they underscore the fact that mint workers of the time were illiterate and prone to make such mistakes. The 20p has interest, as it shows that even with modern technological mint processes, cock ups can still happen. Those which don't really do it for me are pieces which result from failure of machinery or process such as brockages, coins with a sector clipped out of them, or where a small piece of the lettering has been damaged. Generally speaking, I think the market agrees with me. But as ever, each to his/her own.

I'll put it with my limited edition 37th anniversary of the first staging of the Outer Hebrides Amateur Wife Beating Championships commemorative plates.

You might want to sell the 20p sooner rather than later, as prices are well over their peak now. Although it may never be valueless, the prices will eventually reach a low level and stay there for a long while as it becomes clear that this was a classic bubble and supply vastly outstrips demand.

It's amazing the potty things people do with coins. I seem to remember when I was about 16 rubbing down a newly minted 2p with sandpaper to see how close I could come to simulating wear. The answer; not very. Why did I bother? God knows. All I know is that I spent the ruddy thing and you never know, it might come up as a curio at some time.

That's a great picture, Huss. I had the problem that I had to get good quality pictures whilst leaving the coin perfectly round so that I could remove the background mechanically, so had to take them head on. Theoretically it is possible to re-shape circular objects with Photoshop, but in practice almost impossible to do and the end result makes you feel seasick! I tried all sorts of methods of improving my photographs including three point lighting, flooding with light etc. In the end, I found the best method was to take the whole lot - camera, stand etc. into the garden on a sunny day and take photographs there. It is fair to say that silver coins photograph far more easily than copper/bronze which can be a nightmare!

Looks like a single exergue line and both 5 and 2 recut, so thankfully nobody has ruined a perfectly respectable 1950/51 penny. I suppose one could argue that with the time that goes into making these things, they would be justified in charging a reasonable price. On the other hand they're still bloody fakes!

I think (hope) that this will prove to be a bizarre anomaly from someone with the resources of Roman Abramovic and the common sense of a blancmange. I wouldn't bet my last 1933 penny on it though!

The only possible flaw I can think of is that a slabbed photograph is a record at one point in time only. Whereas a slabbed coin which remains slabbed can only deteriorate through chemical action with its environment, all manner of things can happen between the slabbed photograph being taken and the 'naked' coin which has been sloshing around in a collection, being sold (the only point at which the photograph would be used) - perhaps the most obvious being 'cabinet friction', it may also pick up fingerprints etc. I can see where you are coming from on this, and I think it would be largely acceptable to us collectors, but may be viewed with suspicion by the dreaded investor.

I don't know so much. Looks like quite a good forgery and I would expect it to realise a decent price.