Red Riley

Thanks Rob, It is an odd one, but looks pretty genuine and due to the existence of faily clear edge lettering and lustre, clearly has not been cast. If it is a modern forgery, it is an extremely good one as everything about it, apart from the plug looks 'right'. Has anybody come across a forged tin coin?

Who knows, perhaps in a hundred years time the slabs themselves will have acquired a value, someone will invent a grading system (based on the amount of yellowing and number of scratches) and we'll end up by slabbing the slabs. And then someone will say; 'Can't we just collect those funny little round metal things . Let's call it 'coin collecting''.

I agree very quiet but maybe I can think of something tomorrow. Also concur that the Syracuse coins and information supplied on them are a credit to scottishmoney. The way coins should be displayed - tied into their historical context, not just seried ranks of lustrous mogadon tablets.

I think I can understand why you and many others like this kind of thing, but for my part I just think the disadvantages of the hereditary monarchy outweigh the advantages. It would be nice to have a say in who was the next head of state and I am very impressed by the non-executive presidency systems of Ireland, Germany, Czech and others. Sorry, but I would like to see somebody other than a Saxe-Coburg on the obverse of our next coinage.

We seem to have moved away slightly from Hussulo's original idea but I think a bank of graded images would be a great idea. Between us, we should be able to collect images of most coins in most conditions. Looks like a job for a volunteer. Incidentally, following on from Rob's last posting, the first point to wear on the 1825-60 Britannia is her right breast. It must have been such things that led a spotty youth overflowing with hormones to become a numismatist...

I often wondered whether some sort of interactive grading website would be good... maybe like a game or quiz. It could show you a coin, you select what grade you think it is, it tells you how you fit in with opinion so far (or expert opinion, or whatever). There could be a link to somewhere to write comments where people could discuss the grading. In fact, what I have described could probably be done with the voting mechanism on the forum, although it would get a bit cumbersome with a thread for each type of coin in each grade. Still, it could provide a useful resource for us all (especially for less common types) and it would be interesting to see the things that different people look for when grading. I like this idea and think there could be some mileage in it. Have a feeling though all graders should be anonymous, as there could be a tendency to undergrade out of sheer machismo!

No doubt you will be flooded with offers. My collection is pretty eclectic (anything from Celtic to 1970) - the result, I am informed, of a butterfly mind. What I suggest I do is to let you have a list of my collection and you can go through and pick out any gaps which you would like filling, I can then scan them and send them to you via e-mail. Can I also suggest some kind of grading guide.

That surely MUST be unique - especially with the portrait of George II on it......... (where did the crying smiley go..?)

It wasn't a complaint, just an observation. I may have caught you on an off day, and if so I myself apologise. I do think I have a reasonable point though.

Can I just have a slight whinge about this reply. When we start collecting coins, we all start with pieces that are pretty much worthless. Although the original poster does not appear to have taken what could have been construed as a putdown personally, a more sensitive soul might. The sniffy attitude of existing collectors was one of the major problems I encountered when starting to collect coins over 40 years ago. Beginners need nurturing if our great and absorbing hobby is to grow. To Tomthumb I say, that coin has every bit as much history, if not more, than a similar piece in uncirculated condition - it just doesn't have the value. If you stick with it, you will acquire better coins but you will always remember those, sometimes barely recognisable pieces which kindled your interest. Hang on in there!

Certainly Michael Gouby does not list any varieties of 1881H. The 'genuine' narrow date pennies appear to have ended in 1879 (distinguished in several other ways e.g. narrow lighthouse) and the date was quite distinctly smaller, wheras this appears to be much more marginal. Are there any other changes from the standard article? As a footnote, the infamous 1874 seems to have almost limitless date sizes, so perhaps in every year there were slight variations from die to die.

I have a 1928 crown in GEF condition. The obverse is pretty much as one might expect from such a coin and is definitely not 'proof', but the reverse shows signs of having been shotblasted to produce a matt finish. I can see no reason why this would have been done anywhere else than at the mint, but it is the only time I have come across it in circulating coin of the realm (1902 excepted). Does anyone have any further information on this. Was it regular practice to treat a small number of coins in this way for photographic purposes? As you might imagine, this is not the easiest thing to reproduce on a scan, but I have had a go with the resolution turned right up and you may just be able to see what I mean.

It may not be worth much, but it's a thoroughly fascinating thing to find and a great talking point with the neighbours. You never know, there may be more and in better condition where that came from.

Have you had a word with Michael Gouby (michael-coins.co.uk)? This sort of thing is right up his street. Even if not listed, he may have contacts.

I am in two minds about slabbing. Instinctively I hate it with a passion, as the joy of coin collecting to me is holding a chunk of history in your hand. What you hold can evoke wars, monarchs, peasant uprisings. There is even the (remote) possibility that the coin was itself held by one of the great figures of the past. Slabbing removes all this and turns collecting into simply peering through a case in a museum, albeit a private one. But by extension, almost the same can be said of coins in BU condition; they just reflect the engraver's/mint's art, but are undoubtedly less evocative than the more humble coins in VF condition or less - the personal side and individuality of the coin is being removed. If well marketed, a Europe/UK based slabbing service could be very successful, and I suspect could also have the effect of pushing up prices dramatically in the higher grades. More likely I feel however, is that any such grading company will be under-resourced, under-funded, incompetent and with insufficient clout to create a new line of investment for anyone simply interested in turning a profit. As such it will fail to affect the market one iota, and will act as a disincentive to anyone else making the same attempt for a good number of years. I apologise if this covers old ground, but I needed to get it off my chest!

Backing up what was stated above, Spinks are not infallible. I once found myself the proud owner of a coin described in the 2002 version as 'extremely rare' - an 1856 Plain Trident penny. For a year or so, I went all wobbly at the knees when I thought of it. However, the 'mistake' was corrected in the next edition - £65 fine (mine is slightly better). Not exactly enough to retire on - and to be honest, I don't think the coin was ever that rare, but the number of prices listed in the guide are so collosal that some areas will be inadequately investigated and others just carried over from previous years. So to answer the original question, the value of 'extremely rare' in my case was about half our weekly shopping bill.