Red Riley

Peeve or not, I do largely agree. There are genuine narrow/wide date varieties from 1874 to 1879 where the width of date is simply an 'ease of convenience' way of differentiating between two quite different reverses. Where it's the only difference... Nah, not for me.

The problem is, some of the Chinese fakes are so good, the only way to spot a particular one is when two coins turn up with EXACTLY the same blemishes/minor spots, etc. The first would fool an expert. The second, side by side with the first, would show they are both fakes taken from the same original. There's no way to cover those, and they are the biggest menace, in my book. What makes it more dangerous these days is that the original Chinese fakes have now been sold on two or three times since which results in a lack of alarm bells ringing when these forgeries come up for sale.

No wonder you found the book hard to find, it's Derek Allen, Red Riley is my forum name. For some reason Dave always gets it wrong! I certainly don't take any offence, numidan, I think anything which adds to the potential store of knowledge available to collectors, particularly with reference to grading is a good thing but the vagaries of coins are such that I don't believe anything is going to solve the problem absolutely 100%. What more recent joiners to this site may not know is that my book was the outcome of a thread, very much like this one back in I believe 2008 when we were all moaning about the poor standards of grading, especially on E-Bay and somebody suggested a comprehensive pictorial guide to grading. I stuck my head above the parapet and the rest, as they say, is history. I would like to think that it improved the standard of internet grading but the jury is still deliberating at taxpayers' expense on that one...

Many of these varieties concern the last numeral which is effectively the last thing to be punched into the die. Perhaps the guy responsible had a truly attrocious hangover on 1 January 1901 (remember they celebrated this not 1 January 1900 as the new century) and signed the pledge forthwith, hence steadier hand, punches all numerals in the same place. Just a theory...

Along with a dozen hubcaps, 4 mobile phones, a sovereign ring and the keys to an Escort XR3. All in a sack marked 'Swag'.

Nope, can't make any sense of that at all.

Nice find! To be treated as an interesting curio, or a must-have micro that'll need upgrading one day? To me it's just a common or garden 1860 beaded and no price premium for having a drunken '0'. Like most engineering jobs the simplest task is always given to the dumbest operative hence the number of bizarre varieties!

As I said, there is definitely something fishy going on.

And quite right too. The English language is a beautiful thing. Innit?

Yes it has been cleaned. You may be able to get a little over bullion for it though. If you were trying to sell on e-bay say, I would photograph in natural light which won't accentuate the lack of toning so much.

As you say, common in the early years.

Something dodgy going on methinks...

They've also got all the ambient lighting of a coal cellar so imperative to take some form of light (an illuminated loupe should do fine). I concur with everything else said, although you ought to be safe enough with anything below EF but take Unc with a huge pinch of salt.

More than most, I think the reserve dictates the estimate. Certainly on the occasions I have attended, virtually nothing was sold below estimate and some of the estimates/reserves were optimistic in the extreme! Without checking the site, I believe the sellers' premium is way below the competition and so owners are tempted to 'have a punt'. Unless you live south of the river it's a nightmare to get to, but on the other hand perhaps the last of the old school coin auctions.

Nice of him to quote the weight - almost exactly 1g under which proves it's dodgy. Still, they're getting closer.

I have to say I've not found them that difficult to sell. Double florins on the other hand...

In a word Dave (to your first question), no. I have had several of these through my hands and that kind of roundness seems to be the way they left the mint (shillings are a little different). It would in any event be odd for the face, which is protected by the hair and laurel wreath to wear before the higher points of the design. I did look - and don't forget this is only a photograph - to see whether the veins in the leaves had been tooled but I don't think so. I'll stick with GVF. Incidentally, what grade did the dealer give it?

GVF

As it is far from clear cut, I think it probable that they would just challenge the findings of any other 3PG.

Remember it well. For reasons best known to her, a girl I worked with dumped some in my umbrella. Used to get very strange looks when it rained...

Welcome Kris, Its impossible to be 100% certain from the photographs, but the second picture suggests what I would immediately assume to be true. One side of a 1962 halfcrown has been hollowed out on a lathe and a second coin, also reduced on a lathe, has been let into the first. The join is just visible in places along the rim. I have a couple examples of this and I suspect many collectors do. They have no value except as a curiosity. Good for 'heads or tails' though For this to be genuine, it would require the mint to have used two reverse dies at the same time, which just doesn't happen. Accumulator is absolutely right regarding how they were made; the lathe operator in question must have been flush at the time though, as it was more common to do it with a penny. Probably the best thing you can do is put it on e-bay and see if there are any takers. Don't say it's genuine though!

Writing rubbish like this under what is clearly a duff coin is totally counter-productive, anybody can see that it's rubbish and bigging it up like this will just make people think you're a shyster. I once had an 1804 dollar - revolting thing that had been in a fire and partially melted. I eventually sold it on e-bay for way more than I expected under the heading '1804 Dollar, Not For The Faint Hearted'. The eventual winner complimented me on the most honest description he had ever seen. So, sometimes honesty does pay off. Why anybody would give it house room however is beyond me.

Hi Michael, welcome to the forum. There is always the possibility of fakes, but I would say that half groats are about the most common Commonwealth coins and as such you would expect them to turn up more regularly. Once again we shouldn't be complacent but coins from hoards are sometimes glued together with concretion and once they have been liberated can end up quite toneless.

Correction, it never looked like her at all.

I've met Chris a few times at auctions and coin fairs and he seems pretty straightforward. His grading too is usually there or thereabouts, so given that he has changed the listing I am prepared to accept that he was thrown by the Spink's typo.