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Please feel free to add pictures to rarestpennies if you wish Richard

Why risk posting coins worth £580 for 61p uninsured postage? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/penny-hot-oferts/123979683837?hash=item1cddc3d7fd:g:qycAAOSwAPpdv9Re

Clearly the same coin Bernie

I haven't listed many coins on ebay in the past year, because I sensed that buyers are not achieving good results nowadays, and that I may be underwhelmed..the same as Rob. I did, however, decide to put a half decent group of Victorian pennies (copper and bronze), on ebay last Thursday, finishing next Sunday. I reckon a couple of years ago there would have been far more interest / bidding by now. I may decide this is the last time I will use ebay for decent grade coins if I can't even recoup my money on this group. I will wait and see what happens with interest...…...and the next holiday in mind lol 😎

Similarly, clashing on some Victorian Young Head pennies resulted in what some collectors thought was a deliberate tie ribbon

Got a feeling that Jack Relph picked those up at Stroud Auctions (5/12/18) and that they were part of Alan Stevenson's collection. He lived in Cirencester and used to buy a lot on ebay with user name bargains1* before he passed away in June 2018...……....….but I may be wrong.

A nice example of large re-cut rose with small date obverse Pete, not sure I have seen one better than that!

Not trying to tell everyone what to collect, just my own thoughts!

….so for example these would be the date 'font' differences you would seek for your 1851 collection, instead of the numerous date width variations.

I think you have ‘hit the nail on the head’ with this comment Richard. If I was ever to attempt to re-categorise the Young Head penny series I think I would steer away from using date widths, and as far as date varieties are concerned would concentrate instead on the different numeral font types. If date widths are used then where do you draw the line in your collection, because ‘in my experience’ every die has numerals in slightly different positions? Using the above Long numeral 7 as an example, which only represents less than 10% of the entire 1857 population, I have found 5 different obverse dies, all with slightly different positions for the 57. In fact without the use of a digital microscope you would be hard pushed to know they were all struck from different dies………….fortunately they all have die flaws in different locations which makes life easier.

There is additionally a type of 1859 date style which is not currently recorded on Gouby's website. It has the same style numeral 5 as the small date (Gouby B, your right picture), but has yet another (3rd) font type for the numeral 9. I sometimes refer to this as the 1859 'Narrow' Date style, for what it's worth! My experience is that both these 'small' and 'narrow' date varieties have been struck from single die pairings, so only one date width is ever found for each of these two numeral types. This is not true of the larger numeral type of 1859 (Gouby A's) where so far I have recorded 6 different date types. Note that whilst the obverse of the 'Small Date' is clearly different from the 'Narrow Date' this is not true of the reverse dies for these two types, which have the same die flaws!! In my opinion the 'Small Date' obverse was first paired with this reverse die, and then the same reverse die was subsequently used with the 'Narrow Date' obverse...………...with these reverse flaws becoming even more extended, but commencing in the same locations!!

….and pictures (140x) showing height of small 5 and large 5 for coins in top and bottom picture above

The different styles of 5 in my experience is a consistent method of distinguishing between 1858 Small Date numerals (Gouby C and Gouby E) and the Large Date numerals found on all other date styles recorded by Gouby. In my opinion it is better to think of this difference rather than looking at date widths as there are many minor variations of date widths found on both the small 5 and large 5 numeral font types...………... the attached picture (same magnification on each image) illustrates.

The example which appeared on ebay a year or so ago was the same piece that was sold in the LCA December 2016 auction. I tracked down this ebayer and he said he made a mistake by putting a picture of the 1870 dot from his reference folder onto ebay, instead of the actual coin he had for sale! So that means 4 known so far, not 5

Did you get any of the other Proofs Richard, I was tempted by the 1853?

There were 4 nice Proof Victorian Coppers sold at Heritage a couple of days ago, the most expensive (worst condition of the four imo) was this 1859 at $5520. Interesting that the 59 date style on the proof is the same one which was over-stamped with 60 for the rare variety 1860/59

One was sold by London Coins in December 2016 for £400 + BP (Ex-Findlow, see link); I can't see that they have sold another one since. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=155&searchlot=1202&searchtype=2 Other than yours, and the one Bob sold to Tony C, I am only aware of one other which I saw briefly on ebay (think about a year ago) and then it disappeared...…..not sure why! So my feeling is that it is rarer than the 1897 Dot, and probably on a par with the 1875 Canon Ball. Maybe other members know of additional examples, would be good to hear.

Did you buy it Mike?

I have similar on an F29

For reference, here's a close up of the London Coins type...……..where the serif doesn't look like an afterthought

Hi Cliff, how are you keeping? Was thinking maybe it's a trick 'double heads' penny then!!

Agreed Jerry, I think that these two types (pictures attached) both have downward serifs which point differently to the London Coins one which Mike has pictured

Did I miss something on this one, went for about twice what I expected? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1860-QUEEN-VICTORIA-GREAT-BRITAIN-BUN-HEAD-BRONZE-PENNY-1D-COIN-/362550780257?nma=true&si=KU3owCk%2BD8%2Fos%2F2s%2FhI7oP0uhRo%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Perhaps some interesting ghosting, a flying ship and a broken index finger...………...… but I thought that all these things were quite common!

We're just back from The Gambia where they call the Dutch people Hollandish!!