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Definitely the real thing, and surprising that Lockdales make this mistake. Attached pictures for reference, obverse with usual markings as noted by other members and doubled (die clash) ribbons, again always present............ date close up picture with same protrusions (highlighted in red) always seen and clearly also on the Lockdales piece.

Agreed Matt, and apologies because not listed this afternoon, had it on wrong search!! Must have missed them when first listed, showing my age!!

Some very nice bun heads been listed on ebay this afternoon by this seller:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREAT-BRITAIN-Victoria-1860-AE-Penny-PCGS-MS65BN-Dies-6-D-KM-749-2-Gem-/171873195275?hash=item280470d50b:g:SKEAAOSwd0BVt49v Think this one has been incorrectly slabbed as an F17 when should be F16, but still a rarer type so may be of interest to members / perhaps worth an offer if anyone is looking for type!

Perhaps Secret Santa is playing games with us all, and the Elf tree is where he grows his ‘wonderland’ pennies. I have already sent him my Christmas ‘wish list’ letter, and can’t wait until the big day arrives………..but please no chocolate coins this year………..just your 1843DFF would make me very happy!

I told someone about a rare coin only a few days ago after he had already listed on ebay..........because he is a mate and I wanted to see him get a fair price. If he hadn't been a good friend then I wouldn't have said anything, tried to buy it myself cheaply and sell for a profit.........that's the only way I can afford to buy pieces like the ones selling at the next LCA without upsetting the wife's holiday plans

An existing customer of mine bought it

......actually 'no' Pete, have only got one 1876Hf and definitely staying put for the time being. Been looking for another (and better example) since my find in 2011 but not got one yet and time to share with others. No doubt another member will already have one tucked away, probably without knowing it!

I wasn’t able to attend LCA this month so left a couple of postal bids, and now find that Jerry has nabbed both of them. Re. the Gouby 1875Hf which Jerry mentioned, I have seen the double ended ribbon on this date only four times, so think it is quite rare, although difficult to check features on many ebay sales because pictures generally not high enough definition. Interestingly this exact same obverse die is also paired with an 1876H wide date, and I believe that variety is far rarer. I wrote to Michael about this back in 2011 and he agreed with me that ”it is more than probable that the obverse die was carried over from 1875 for use with the 1876 wide date penny”……..and I think he planned to include in revised pages to his 2009 book when time permits.

Attached are reference pictures of 'P'ENNY and High Sea Level on an F148 I recently sold on ebay

That 1897 is most definitely NOT a Higher Sea Level F148. It's not the first time I have seen slabbed 1897's with this wording. Perhaps because the sea is higher than on the previous 1895/6 reverse this "High Sea Level" wording has been used, but please don't be mislead into thinking this is the rare 1897 F148 variety..........because that will hurt you later. I picked up an 1893/2 at LCA a few years back, sold in a group which had been missed, think must be quite an easy one to slip through the net. The chap selling the 1863 open 3 has not to my knowledge signed up to Predecimal, he is a very genuine highly recommended ebay seller.

Hi Bob, cracks on the F14 are very interesting. Attached are 3 pictures of F14’s all with different reverse die cracks, one of which is the same as your own piece. These cracks are of course mutually exclusive, so this means that there must have been 3 different reverse dies used on this rare variety. I also think that the piece sold by Colin Cooke in the Crocker sale may be yet another F14 reverse, but my reference picture is not high enough grade to be sure. On that coin there seems to be a different flaw running between the ship and a border tooth to the right hand side. Did any member happen to buy that coin and can put up pictures to confirm or otherwise?

Thanks for your best wishes with my sales Bernie, think my F7 may be on a par with the Spinks one, but will probably keep this in my thinned down collection......there are some I am going to struggle to let go, despite the constant ear bashing from my wife about my children never wanting them, so might as well spend the money.......I wonder if this mid (late) life crisis is something that all numismatists have to suffer! P.S. Learnt how to do intentional smileys now!!

....why the devil did my 'b' turn into a smiley face when I hit the post button.........perhaps I shouldn't have had that bottle of red!?

Hi Bernie / Pete, afraid those Spink patterns weren't mine, although I did watch the auction most of the afternoon thinking I may pick up an F7 on the cheap, or at least somewhere near the top estimate. Wish I hadn't wasted my time now as was impinging on 5 o'clock drinks time and then went for about 3x top estimate. I was also interested in Lot 1362, an 1874 without H which seemed to have a spike on top of lighthouse, but somehow talked myself out of that one too....have to set a limit and stick to it. I do have an F763 (Gouby A1 + in a mid grade, the one with rotated R, which I may part with in an effort to ruthlessly thin down my collection. Thanks for your best wishes on the 1863 Die 4 Pete, it has quickly achieved 9 watchers since posting late afternoon, already 1 offer but not quite near enough the mark.

......and the promised close ups. By the way my name is Ian too.......now that is going to confuse!!!!

I have an 1855OT Penny with this dot on forehead, picture attached. I will immediately follow on with a close up of the ‘spot’ and also the VICTORIA T repair which I have found on all 4 specimens of this coin which I have ever owned. Bob is correct that there is one for sale at LCA on Sunday, LOT 2792 CGS75 Ex Dr Findlow. I won’t be bidding because I think my piece is better, but will be interesting to see what it now sells for….lol. When I gave the additional ‘dot’ examples of 1854, 1858 and 1859 in my earlier post I decided to leave out this 1855 example because of the more irregular shape and I did not want to confuse the issue further; perhaps that was a mistake. Again, on this 1855 I think that a flaw exiting the top of the spot can be seen under higher magnification. Whilst I have owned four of these specimens I do not think they are at all common. I have probably looked for it on well over a thousand 1855’s over the years and only ever seen a handful.

Hi Ian, I don’t confess to know much about silver so will need to leave that question for other members to answer; it would be interesting to hear some views. Whilst I have given 4 examples of dots on Copper pennies none of these is often seen. I think the same applies to Bronze Victorian pennies (my other main collection) where the famous 1897 dot penny, and now the 1875 canon ball penny are also seldom seen. Michael Gouby has said (page 92 of his book) that the dot on the 1897 penny was “originally thought to be an identification mark, which has since been discounted”. So, on Victorian pennies this feature seems to be rare, but present, on both Copper and Bronze even though they have different chemistry……...so perhaps it will be the same for silver…….but I have yet to go to ‘the dark side’!!

My view is that such dots, seen on several of the Victorian copper pennies series, are not intentionally placed in these locations, but rather the result of a ‘foreign body’ like a piece of grit getting on to the die. The minting process then impresses into the die leaving a small dent, generally quite circular in shape but not always……….most things take a circular shape when hammered! I think that the resulting effect is often to leave a weak spot (no pun intended) on the die from which subsequent flawing can originate; I think this far more plausible than the dots being deliberately placed in these positions to prevent further cracking, and Brian has already confirmed that on his 1853 OT there is no additional flawing around his dot………...so the dot came first! I attach a further picture of an 1858 dot penny (undocumented) where one can more readily see flawing around the dot. Collectors may also be aware of an 1854PT penny with a dot in the field under the first I of VICTORIA, and also an 1859 penny with a dot near to the border teeth above the DEF colon……….these latter two coins under high magnification also show weak flawing around the dot. The 1854 and 1859 have now been categorised as varieties by CGS, although I am not too comfortable about that. Whilst an interesting feature, I do not think they are true varieties because created by fluke of minting process rather than being an intentional or erroneous action of a person.

I think I have answered my own question! It seems that I already have an 1853 Ornamental Trident GRATI.A penny in a bunch of lower grade coins I was going to sell. It has identical date and other obverse features as my dot coin paired with the Plain Trident reverse. Whilst it is lower grade I cannot see any signs of flawing around the dot so that would seem to fit with what one would expect i.e. this obverse die was first used paired with the OT reverse and then subsequently paired with the PT reverse once this latter type of reverse was introduced later in 1853. It would of course still be good if another member could find an 1853OT Dot penny in high grade where any signs of flawing around the dot would be visible if present. Still quite interesting I think to discover that in 1853 a single obverse die was used paired with both OT and PT reverse dies.

Thanks very much for getting back to me about this Brian. You have noted that your own coin is paired with an OT reverse, rather than a PT reverse like my own coin…….this is the interesting thing, please read on. Now that you have confirmed your own coin has these identical and unusual obverse features I attach a close up of the ‘dot’ between the I and A of GRATIA. Under high magnification, but still not immediately obvious, it can be seen that there is a faint die flaw running underneath the A towards the bottom of the dot and then exiting at the top of the dot and proceeding all the way up to a border tooth (see the red arrows) Bearing in mind that the deterioration of a die, and associated progress of a flaw, represents a timeline, and that we now know these dots appear on a single obverse which is paired with both an Ornamental Trident and Plain Trident (and in a year where the PT was first introduced), I think it would be of much interest to determine whether the PT preceded the OT when paired with this obverse……..or vice versa. It is difficult to see without good close-ups whether your own piece also exhibits such flaws in these exact same locations? Whilst I believe there are very few decent examples of 1853PT paired with Gouby Style A Italic 5 obverse (Gouby Style C being far more common), may I ask whether any other member has an 1853 ‘dot’ coin, PT or OT, with these same date and legend features? If so, please could you report back on any findings regarding the state of the flaws through the dot? P.S. I can add a couple of other close ups of additional unusual obverse features which are a trade mark for this particular die should any member feel that the date and high I in VICTORIA and insufficient to convince that it is the same obverse die which is paired with both an OT and PT reverse.

…..as can be seen there is a protrusion of an underneath 5 to the top left hand side. Additionally, the location of the numerals in relation to the border teeth differs from all the ‘Date Style A’ (italic 5) varieties documented by Gouby to date:- http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/1853_penny.htm My coin also has several minor legend repairs, the most noticeable being the first I of VICTORIA which is high in line, with a small protrusion of an underneath I at the base. Please could I ask Brian to check to see whether his Ornamental Trident coin has these same features?

I have an 1853PT with this dot, pictures attached. Having examined the additional date pictures which Brian has posted I believe that the obverse on my piece may have been struck from the exact same die as his. I will attach further close ups of the date and other features on my own coin in my next posting, to follow on immediately…...

A few years back I placed 3 coins with LCA for one of their auctions. It was suggested to me that they would realise best price if I paid for slabbing.......which I went ahead and did prior to the auction. As I did not have much experience of LCA at that time I decided to place reserves on these coins. One of them did not reach it's reserve of £200 so I brought it home with me to sell on ebay. I found it really difficult to take decent pictures through the slab, so committed what I felt to be a sin at that time of bursting it open. I then took the desired pictures and sold on ebay for almost double the reserve............an interesting experience!

I agree with Richard's comments about the LCA 1862 8 over 6 spacing being right for this variety. I attach close up pictures of the date on my own piece for members reference, the latter one taken with digital microscope in brilliant white light to better show the detail....but not the colour. I may well sell this coin once I see the LCA auction results as my 1861 8/6 is in better condition and suits me well enough for my Bronze collection.

I see that those two 1861's are now for sale at LCA Lot 2763 if any member was interested, £100 - £200