PWA 1967

Another good indicator Ian. OBV 1..... I of IMP to space OBV 2......I of IMP to tooth.

That would make it a F177 Ian . Although unsure what REV you mean ? Its OBV 2 though.

Yes Mike.....Dave would not of had regulars and people buying off a list for over thirty years if the coins were overgraded or wrongly described. He is one of the really good honest dealers that i have dealt with and helped me fill numerous gaps ,upgrades over the last couple of years. Mark rassmussen is another who grades honestly and i would buy without a picture , just his description over the phone. Some Dealers though are living on a different planet IMO and think they do it more as a hobby and not bothered if they sell a coin or not. The pictures from ingram were spot on as they showed that the coins were not very good and saved you having to return them 😊

https://www.cooperscoins.com/collections/crown The sellers own website.

Dave runs his business by going to every show and trying to turn the coins over quickly and will only do a list when there is not a show for a couple of weeks. I would bet if anyone goes to a coin show he will be there and from what i am told seems to get busy when the doors open which i feel is because he is always buying and his prices are fair. I am not sure ingrams work the same way and maybe just put things on a website and sit and wait for someone to buy something ,i cant take a coin dealer seriously who is grading and trying to sell 1933 pennies.

As it says by the artist who did the cards , hope you have not missed out on a set 😂

Yes.......Its starting to get on my nerves now 😂

I dont know if it matters but Lot 121 was F80 and Lot 122 was F82

Just email Lee at colin cooke Mike and sure he will send them you , as i did have them but cant find it.

April Peck.

I also bought an 1856 penny the seller told me was EX-Alderley and had to tell him it wasnt although i believed he didnt know and had been ripped off with the price being bumped up.I did buy it off him anyway much cheaper as was a really nice one ,but again i am glad i checked first before i bought it , as he hadnt.

I remember someone trying to sell me a coin a few years ago ago that the provenance wasnt right......Which i only found out later ☺️ Soon after i bought a penny from an auction (not LCA) only a few known and really good provenance.When i received the coin i was able to get the sellers details and asked him how he knew the provenance that was stated in the description. "i think someone told me "was his reply which didnt sound very promising I then was able to send a message to the person himself who supposedly last had it , as he is still alive......... "No it definately wasnt mine " wasnt really what i wanted to hear ☹️ The auction in fairness did offer me a full refund ,although i decided to keep it. A couple of years later i took a LOSS (it was bugging me ) and sold it making sure the person knew it WASNT right. Provenance is nice although the lesson i learned was to always check and be sure and otherwise just put a line through it and buy just the coin.

Yes.When i was doing some research i found this link quite interesting.Not just pennies but other denominations ,some of which have been asked about previously on here. https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/special-collections/foreword.php?specialcollection_id=160 If anyone is interested you can click on the tab at the bottom and some have footnotes as well as descriptions. I believe there are a few others about ,but as i mentioned just a bit different.

😂 I can laugh at myself Dave ,so dont mind laughing with (at) others 😛

That person was me , i had only just started collecting but looking at the messages i sent you there was no "winge" just how much would you accept for it as I could not reach the reserve without an underbidder ☺️ Its the reason i remembered your original thread. Maybe 5 years ago you did not think the newbie who knows nothing would still be around

https://www.tokenpublishing.com/ There isnt a link Eric as its a pay for magazine although you can purchase an email copy for just a couple of pound.This cant be shared though as will only work as far as i am aware from the email address its purchased from .To see what the format is like though first you can have a look FOC at a previous issue.

Yes thats why i was getting confused , as you also do say in the first post that the coin came from the Crocker sale .

One thats a bit different (daft ) that i bought last week. A couple of other different types have been touted about recently but only wanted one 😉

Sorry there was a big thread posted on here a few years ago. that confused me . If you look on the TPG threads there is one called "I have gone and done it " that is about a F176......The last page 5. The crocker one being the same one as was sold at LCA about three years later and then Copthorne.

The slabbing does not change the coin Gary.when you bought it from the crocker sale you told cgs and they put a price of about the same value.As more were sold at higher prices they kept increasing it and is currently at £350 graded at 75. Just putting it in a plastic slab confirmed what you wanted which was the grade and the fact it was problem free . I am sure now perhaps more people are looking that your other one will do much better.

The Copthorne one Mike i think would of needed to be seen in hand.I am pretty sure its LCA Lot 2210 GEF £150 +.

Yes when you start looking there are not many F176 although there is more than two sold at LCA. The Copthorne one i am sure is one of the ones sold at LCA and the Frank Stephenson one was from the Andy scott sale.... the Workman one is wrongly attributed. Although the F164a i think people have decided if they want one to settle for a low grade and the F176 maybe people will only look for a decent one .

Yes your right Mike as i had noticed those and have seen the same in other auctions , also had two F164 that are scarce posted to me from different dealers without pictures that were not. Ages ago when i started looking at them closely i realised that the F164 and F165 are much scarcer than the common F166 ,so much so that i found it much easier to look at the reverse first as if it wasnt REV D it was worth looking at the obverse. Talking to Jon a few months ago about the number of 1908 / 1913 pennies wrongly attributed he said "i think i will just call mine what i want as everyone else does " 😂 Why you have decided thats what your doing Jon as with the one above then atleast use a good one 😛

As paddy who posted at the same time has confirmed.............Not everyone checks them

The main thing is to know what to look for as most auction houses / dealers dont bother and just rely on the people they have got them off and even when they are listed not always correct. There will be some in collectors trays who probably dont even know they have one A good example of this was the two that Dave craddock (mentioned above) had as he bought twelve 1913 pennies in a bag and two were F175. A decent one that sold on ebay recently by a dealer had been bought from auction and neither had checked and was also a F175. One i had was off a forum member who had bought a mixed lot of a few high grade pennies in auction and one was a F175 Yes much scarcer but worth looking and not just on ebay. This also possibly shows IMO amongst others i have found or know about ........ F176 is the scarcer of the two.