PWA 1967

One i have just got back from NGC MS65BN ,lovely tone for a scarce year in high grade.

I know this has been touched on before but have tried to take it a bit further. 1937 2+B Proof Unrecorded. About two years ago i took a penny i had bought off ebay to Colin Cooke coins , as Neil was on the phone i showed it to another dealer who was there. I only mention this as that was when i could not understand why some fantastic collections did not have one. When he had i look he told me it was a laquered normal penny explained why and i threw it in the bin.The dealer when i explained what i thought it was told me not to look as there was no such thing and maybe i was wasting my time.I didnt question him and he shall remain nameless as maybe at the time he was right and other people dont look.I casually looked at the ones on ebay but didnt really hold out much hope untill finding another.After Sharing pictures with a couple of forum members and seeing it in hand , again it started to make me think and just put it away.Just after Neil Paisley was round at the flat and i passed it him asking what it was he then confirmed it was a proof 100%.I then needed for my own piece of mind to try and find find another.John Stevenson had one that he believed was right as he had taken it from a set and i purchased that also. As they are unrecorded the next step was for them to be confirmed as proofs not really for the grade but more the proof label.I sent them both to PCGS and both came back PR65. UIN 34013361 & 3403362 During the course of looking i have also seen PCGS 82203674 & NGC 2720722-095PR64. I have also months ago contacted the Royal Mint although i have had a couple of replies there verdict is pending....... Not a clue how many there are as feel most still in sets and dont think people bother as really a MICRO variety and dealers only occasionally will look at the reverse. Reverse B has the sea line at the top of a tooth and an easy indicator. Sorry if its a Boring thread but anybody who has a set or 1937 Proof Penny please take a quick look. Pete.

A really nice 1893 over 2 Gouby BP1893B ,often wrongly attributed 😀

Well done ,i assume you know what variety it is and yes daft American grading 😀

No thats exactly how it looks Mick ,as i mentioned if someone wants to buy them dipped because they think they look good ,thats entirely up to them. Just a shame maybe if they didnt know that when they come to sell them they dont get as much.

Thats the problem Jon ,they have done a good job BUT then hidden the cleaning by dipping it.

This is the farthing a couple of days before it was re-sold for a lot more 👎 1849 Queen Victoria Farthing | eBay I have no problem people buying them and selling for a profit its what makes the world go round ,however some people are buying them and altering the appearance solely to perhaps mislead people,it would not be so bad on the odd one maybe BUT there are loads of them.

Although advanced collectors may be able to tell if coins have been dipped watching some sell recently i am concerned new collectors dont know and paying to much. Collectors maybe buying them thinking they are ok and maybe buying others from the same sellers.That IMO is fine if they know what they are buying ,however the prices people are paying i dont believe they do. Begginers (or any collector for that matter ) IMO need to be able to tell what they are looking for as the sellers are not going to tell them they are dipping them. Anyone have any opinion on these ?

$240,000 😀 The Edward V111 brass threepence sold for $140,000 😯

I am sick of seeing them for sale and dont want to encourage others to start using it if they read the forum and think they look much better. Not long ago a friend of mine bought one and mailed me pictures saying" this coin looks like its been in brown sauce ,its even got brown marks on the paper envelope " 😂 BOTH the coins have been in it above ,its just like any dipping solution and the stronger the mix or longer its left in the darker it goes.However if the coins been heavily cleaned and in parts down to the base metal this will appear lighter than other areas. Its used not just on cleaned coins but can be used on anything to brighten the colour up and make them (in the sellers opinion ) look more attractive. I have some before and after pictures if you are interested of dipped copper / bronze coins and happy to share the types of toning fluid BUT not on here ,just send me a message if you wish.

Anyone else noticed over the last 12 months that more and more Copper and Bronze pennies are being sold that have been cleaned and dipped in TONING FLUID. There has always been a few and a collection sold at auction about 12 months ago had a lot in ,that i do know as returned three. However there are now dozens which IMO means that maybe some sellers are not doing it to the odd one but doing it intentionally to increase the sale price which in some cases has been ridiculous. I have put the links to show the cleaning and toning fluid due to being able to use the magnifier and not to target the two sellers as lots of coins not just on eBay are the same. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354391557616 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165877079811 Maybe some collectors dont mind and prefer them to look this way ,although maybe some especially new collectors dont know.

I believe 3rd January at 9-00AM on the Royal mint website.

MOST of the Copper varieties can be found quite easily in lower grades if your prepared to look and very rarely attributed. However finding them in HIGH grade is were it becomes more difficult and some harder than others ,such as the 1854 No (or weak) Colons. So the 1858 26a plenty of them and certainly not rare or hard to find , but how many do you see better than EF 😀 Like this 1854 DOT i bought at the weekend also ,plenty in low grade. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155307972243

A recent purchase and dont see many like most Copper varieties now in a decent grade ,Bramah 26a with the missing serifs on the I of Britanniar. Happy Christmas and all the best. Pete.

1933 Penny in the signature sale at Heritage ,although graded as currency and thought to be a proof 😀 George V Penny 1933 MS63 Brown NGC, Royal mint, KM838 (Rare), | LotID #62002 | Heritage Auctions (ha.com)

Not on eBay ,but i nearly bought this one privately about 8 months ago ,seller only sent me a picture of the obverse. Glad i checked 😀 https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/6133401-007/64/

Just an update for anyone who has one or maybe interested ,both the Large rose sold after the auction for the reserves. Although was only informed this morning.

Yes ,i must of set the reserves to high ,which is always hard if not much to compare them with. However IMO much better than having a reserve that is to low and risk giving them away ,just a case of trying to be fair / realistic and now found out i was wrong 😀

Yes the Large date is only what i consider rare in grades above VF ,like most copper penny varieties you can find most if you look hard enough. Try finding them in high grade though...... I have this Large date in the Baldwin Auction and not many as good to the best of my knowledge ,if it wasnt for the ejection pinch at the top i feel it may of graded higher.

Not the exact same place ,but i bought this penny the other week and in between the same letters ,maybe something to do with a setting out mark as a bit coincidental that the dot could be anywhere else on the coin.

Just to add to how rare these are although you know F474 4+C. I have just been talking to Dave Craddock and over 40 years has looked at thousands and never found one ,in his opinion they are much rarer than R12 👍 If he tells me something is extremely rare it will be , as MOST types of BRONZE coins he will of had a few of and probably handled and looked at more than anyone else.

Not purchased this week but received back from NGC today. Really happy with the grade as although its a weak strike as quite a few are they are scarce BU and Graded RED. Verify NGC Certification | NGC (ngccoin.com)

Yes Dave phoned me Sunday asking why he had lots of people ask him for it , as he didnt think they were rare and seen and had plenty Large roses. By his own admission he didnt know the SMALL date was worth more and just priced as large rose 😀 The coin in Balwin is mine and the Low estimate of £400 i felt going off previous sales with only a few known fair.

Baldwin bought the coin last Tuesday and the OBV picture just a quick one on the day they bought it. The coin has now SOLD though ,just incase anyone was interested ,rather than wasting your time making enquiries.

One thats a bit different that Baldwin have bought , much better than the other they sold not long ago. Gold penny and with provenance back to 1871.