jelida

I agree, I use it all the time, with searches that send me an email if matches occur. Jerry

All three coins require basic conservation to optimise their potential, but all are nice detector finds. Individually, a dedicated numismatic auctioneer is unlikely to take them on. The tealby has an exceptional portrait, but is marred by the edge chip though it remains the most desirable. Dobunnic units in uncleaned condition may struggle to hit £50, I would see if it can be improved - most detecting clubs have someone who could advise, the aluminium foil/ alkali method often works well. If I had to sell, I would offer these for via Ebay or Facebook, set a reserve or price if you wish and see what happens. But as a long-standing detectorist myself I would say keep them, and find the upgrade money elsewhere - you will always regret selling your best finds. Jerry

Best place? A coin fair every time, followed by a recognised dealer or auction house. EBay and Facebook are widely used but fraught with risk for a beginner, especially the latter due to the sheer number of fakes and misrepresentation. As you learn more about the subject you may be inclined to take greater risks on EBay - bargains can be had - but in general Caveat Emptor applies. Purchases via this forum are pretty safe if via a long-standing member, but only rarely offered. Jerry PS and welcome to the forum, sound advice (usually) freely offered here.

Thanks for posting this both. It was always too good to be true when the sellers fees disappeared, now the buyer takes the hit! I suppose poor Ebay has to make its billions somehow, after all they have to keep employing all those accountants/politicians to avoid paying tax! Jerry

Here are a couple of group pics of the British coins, I bought 36 on a little felt lined box, I think I have posted one of each type. I also bought a mixed lot in lesser condition including quite a lot of German coin types. Jerrj

Thanks Kai, I’ll get some photos over the next couple of days. Jerry

What is the best reference for these tiny coins? I couldn’t resist buying a bag of them at the MCF today and I would like to be able to read up on them in addition to the excellent info here. Is Rogers ‘Toy Coins’ still the one to buy? If so, if anyone can point me in the right direction please do so, internet searches have drawn a blank. thanks, Jerry

I’m not sure that the answer is straightforward. Although this variety is listed in the appendix of the most recent Freeman, it (in common with other new discoveries) has not been allocated a Freeman number. In reality, the variety is no more an F38 than an F39 as in both cases the obverses are different and so it is not a sub-variety of either. All I can do is tell you what I do in these circumstances, pending a complete revision of Freeman. I catalogue my pennies by date primarily, Freeman number secondarily (occasionally Gouby No where he recognises the type) and in the absence of any published varietal identifier I write something like ‘not in Freeman’ and a summary of what makes it different eg ‘Freeman 3+G’ or ‘14 teeth’ or whatever. That has the advantage that it is universally applicable, anybody reading my tickets knows what he is dealing with. Jerry

Thanks for coming to my defence, Blakeyboy, but I take no offence from PT/KB’s comment, I have absolutely no idea who Norris Cole is but also I have a 4yr old grandson so I am quite used to name calling.’ Stinky Grandon ‘ is his current epithet I believe, bless his little heart! Jerry

Excellent idea! Penny Trump? Jerry

Snap!

Top 1873, bottom 1886. Jerry

The comprehensive appendices that Richard added to the last Freeman (authorised) reprint did incorporate the significant varieties-new dies, overstrikes etc - recorded until then, but did not deal with variations in date width, slapdash but otherwise correct letter repairs etc that Gouby does address. It was well produced and at a very reasonable price and quickly sold out. Gouby did of course update his text also comparatively recently and still offers occasional update pages eg for the (F15) R over A in Victoria, Medusa 1847 numbers . Really only Richards online ‘Pennies heads n tails’ is really up to date, including the new 1887 to 92 obverse. Any printed publication will age - though a ‘print to order’ version of Richards site would be wonderful! Jerry

Absolutely true, a study based solely on the pennies surviving now would be quite different in its balance between common and rare. Use of rarity values is at its best unreliable, and we must all understand that. Jerry

Except in the case of Freeman of course, who actually studied a massive random sample from circulation ; while not perfect, his estimations of comparative rarity are as accurate as will ever be achieved for the bronze coinage. In terms of actual numbers of exceptionally rare coin varieties that were barely or not represented in Freeman’s sample, there will always be an element of flux as demonstrated by RS’s excellent ‘Rarest Pennies’ register. A ‘unique’ ‘slender 3’ 1863 penny becomes three known for instance, and more will be found. And in the end, it is market availability and demand that determine the price. In general I can see where you are coming from. One has to hope that those declaring, and particularly publishing, rarity values make every effort to ensure reasonable accuracy. You will not find a ‘rarity’ value on any of my coin tickets, for good reason. Jerry

You really shouldn’t be so sensitive to criticism, I have already stated that it is your prerogative to act as you wish. As they say, you can take a horse to water etc. Jerry

It does seem that generous resources seem to attract women…..or am I just watching the wrong sort of videos…..? 😮 Jerry

Removed duplicate post - my cock-up!

In discussion of Freeman rarity allocations, we have to understand how they were arrived at, which was by the study of over 60,000 pennies gathered randomly from circulation - a project that can never be repeated. They were not based on the collections of numismatists, which are inherently biased, and largely unpublished and untested. The sheer number of coins Freeman categorised cut the margin of error to give a factually based (but not necessarily perfect) estimation of comparative rarity, which in combination with official RM mintage figures and estimates of survival rates give the approximate numbers available to collectors today. A ‘Freeman number’ and rarity estimation is that published in his book, not something for us as individuals to make up - though by general consensus and consultation with Michael or his copyright holder modifications might be made. If I as an individual collector find a coin that I think merits varietal status, it is not adequate just to ask around my mates and look on EBay or past catalogues and not finding any more to declare it R19 or R20. Take your F10a, the ‘N over Z’ (actually N over sideways N) which you rate R17 - this is actually quite a common coin, often on EBay and in auctions and the latest Freeman already gives it a rarity rating - ‘R14?’- which is much more realistic. Your F10c - the triple F - you rate R18. Again seen reasonably frequently and nowhere near R18; Dave Craddock sold a fine example for £25 a couple of years ago, and he knows the market better than most. Similar applies to other examples that you have allocated spurious Freeman rarities to. You have a wonderful collection, certainly one of the best, you don’t need to embellish it. Jerry

I’m not sure where you want to go with this? KB’s resources , as in my case, may well include a pension pot - they are still demonstrably resources spent that most of us do not have! Mr Booth is lucky enough I understand not to be limited financially in the way most of us are, and more power to his elbow, as the saying goes. And I too would much sooner see these coins stay in the country of origin and in the hands of a collector than with an overseas investor - that was the issue that was addressed in the original post! I did not to say that we should be prohibited from collecting whatever we want, from wherever we want. And not a full stop, definitely a comma - If I had the ‘resources’ the prices would have been higher! But I did win two Workman lots. Jerry

This is entirely your prerogative Kevin, but why not just do what others do and state ‘not listed in Freeman’ and then your own description or reference? If we all did as you do, there could be dozens of Freeman 0’s 10 A, B, C’s etc in use all referring to different coins. Anarchy! Jerry I will address the rarities issue tomorrow , the wife is grumbling about me using the iPad in bed!

Presumptuous? Unless Kevin had the resources, how could he have afforded such wonderful coins? The Workman spend alone is greater than my pension pot! Yet I still obsessively splash out when I can…… Jerry

And I was surprised to spot this in a little tub of coins in my local auction at the weekend; somebody else must have too, as it went for £170 plus commission. But a bargain I think. Jerry

A nice penny from Ebay, 34 Euro including postage. Considerable residual lustre that doesnt seem to show in the pics - nicer in the hand! Jerry

I think there is confusion here Kevin, our Coinery (Stuart) is not to be confused with ‘The Coinery’ (Guy) who has the 1808 penny. And I think Stu came first! Jerry