terrysoldpennies

Welcome to the Forum Jack . As you may guess from my name i'm not into Shillings, but im sure lots of useful information will be forthcoming from other members on here who are.

Yes I know 1967 penny , who cares they only made 600,000,000 of them. Well I came across a lot of ten mixed date pennies on a very poor out of focus picture, with only one coin that you could determine the date and that it was a missing sea example. I already had a 1966 example and have been looking for a 1967 for many years. and to my great surprise when the pennies arrived four of the five 1967s were missing sea types, so must have been stored away when new and have survived together for the past fifty four years. After having a good look at the 1967s and comparing them with the 1966 I noticed that all the 1967s not only had the missing sea but also had a much shorter plume and a missing back shoulder strap , whereas on the 1966 missing sea the strap is present and the plume runs right down to touch the shoulder, as you find on the normal 1966/67s .

Yes, I have to agree with Pete its a good book to buy for information on 20th century Bronze.

I did know that Pete I posted that on here in Feb 2016 but its that the two missing sea dates are both different one with the long plume the other with the short

I agree with you on the rarity, as in fifteen years of looking on Ebay I have only seen two , as to recognising it on worn coins , the rev. D and E can be hard to determine but the rev. E has the P in PENNY to the gap , on the D its to the tooth. But without the signature showing its not really very collectable.

Obverse

Here's my one, I never felt the need to up grade it as it shows the signature very clearly.

If I may suggest two others Richard , The F14 1860 3+E and the F77 1874 8+G .

!! Caveat Emptor !!

I would guess that the reverse E on the f14 was one of a set of trial dies that broke up almost immediately when they started to use the dies on the production line , hence virtually no coins if any survive without die cracks, possibly also the fate of the obverse 2* which all examples found up to now have serious die cracks showing .

I agree it does look different . Die 5 . Has any one found an F14 without a die crack ??

Surely if the Royal Mail paid you compensation, then as it was also them that subsequently delivered the coin, they are responsible as they should have withheld the coin and not deliver it .

It looks to me like a forth die, the cracks are clearly nowhere near the same location as on the other three dies .

With time on our hands owing to covid I thought this might be an interesting thread to introduce , and it would be great to hear other sayings you may remember from your past . My Grannie on my mothers side was born at the turn of the 19th into the 20th century , and she was apt to use sayings to express herself just about all the time , many of which have now gone from my memory , but some that I can remember are here. A lot of her sayings go right back into the 1800s . When I was very young I was often taken to my grandmothers house at the same time as many of my aunts along with my cousins , they were mostly younger than myself, and a saying she often used to console a crying child was this . WELL GOODNESS GRACIOUS ME ALIVE ALL SAINT ALL PINK Where it came from i've never managed to find out. Another was . YOU CAN NO MORE DO THAT THAN WALK ON THE MOON Ironically she lived long enough to see Armstrong and Aldrin do just that in 1969 Another . When driving home a point she would say . YOU MARK MY WORDS I guess this one is quite well known Last . THERE AS DIM AS A TOC H LAMP As a boy I never knew where this one came from , and never bothered to find out but come the internet age I was able to find out that it was a very popular saying during the first world war, at the time of her youth . It seems that it was a kind of oil lamp going back century's , but at about that time a small bicycle oil lamp was in use , and hence the saying.

I first moved to the country in1973 from London and back in those days the real country accent still existed and a couple of terms stick in my mind, one was a woman that was talking to me about her teacher at school and said HE LEARNED ME WELL also the man next door to me grew TAITERS in his garden .

One other noticeable inconsistency is the count for all of the 1960s pennies in comparison to the entry for 1966 as it is under half the count for each of the other years. I wonder if this is the result of the 10K of coins having been collected in a different area as to where the majority of the 1966s were released, and hadn't had time to spread out across the whole country, or that a large number of them were still in the hands of the banks still awaiting release , even as late as May 1967 when the article was released . ?

It looks to me as though the die has suffered some degree of filling on the top cross bar on the E and the P as the central cross part on both letters is doubled , and that then an E and P have been re-punched slightly out of position over what was left of the old letters. Below is an example of a coin with the G in REG having partly filled and then re-punched incorrectly lower and well out of position , and still leaving the outline of the old G. Over stamps don't seem uncommon on early bronze coins , but if its a different letter or the same letter inverted or rotated through 90 deg , then it becomes much more collectable.

Oh what a good idea , ill just warm up the printer.

I think the expectation on Freemans part was that another would turn up , but as far as I know its still a unique example

The 1920 entry relates to there being to different obverse dies used that year, freeman obverse 2 with the colon dots after the P in IMP pointing to the gap between the teeth, found on all 1920 pennies except for one known example , which has obverse 3 with the same colons pointing directly to the tooth , which I believe is in the British museum . both obverse 2 and 3 are to be found on 1921 pennies , and obverse 3 on 1922 pennies. 1958 halfpenny . They seem to have been experimenting with the dies at the Mint that year, as differing rim and teeth lengths seem to exist . Below are some differences I have found. Freeman shows three reverse types , I think there may be four but with marginal differences . 1 Narrowest rim and shortest teeth spliced together with the widest rim and longest teeth and the ship size differences 2 sections of the four different rims together The tiny differences are not considered important by most collectors so its up to you and your personal opinion.

Sorry Richard ,It was Matts [ Nordle 11 ] picture 29/3/16. I don't think he posted a full coin picture , More Pennies - Page 49 - British Coin Related Discussions & Enquiries - British Coin Forum - Predecimal.com.url

if I may put forward another possible cause. If a die is in use and happens to sustain a knock on the top of the die or if die clash is sustained its logical that an engineer would rub the face of the die with something abrasive to try to remove the mark , and a dent on the face would appear in reverse on the coin as a protruding dot or lump . in the course of rubbing down the face the outer edges of the die would have slightly more metal rubbed away than in the central area . Now the waves and rocks are only shallowly incused into the die and if the edge of that die were rubbed away then the shallow waves closest to the edge of the coin would disappear completely . the teeth or beads though are cut deeply into the die and would still show strongly on the coin. Below is a picture of the same coin as Pete's I believe .

It also has an R over R in BRITT Martin , more clearly seen on the Wybrit coin above.

Wow fancy having one of them in the garden, it would sure get some attention.