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DrLarry
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Everything posted by DrLarry
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The Copper Half penny : Only one is listed in Rogers #685 no image is in Rogers as he had not seen one so it is hard to know which variety. In this one the HA is between the trident and helmet it is likely that there exists a version with the Half in small letters in full between the trident and the helmet and perhaps another with the HALF after the one ...I think this is new one unlisted perhaps using one of the lost numbers 680 to 685
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The Copper Penny #677 the Reverse has large letters similar to the new one above but they are without serifs above whereas in this variety is with serif Rogers notes 3 varieties 677 #678 #679
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The Penny : this is an interesting issue it seems at odds with the idea of making the lower value coins in copper and is Iron Plated Large letters on both sides with a small RS over the laurel . As far as I can tell this is a new variety the obverse seems to match this one #678
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#670 Three Pence I have no example . No image of 673 670 is the larger letter variety
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Sixpence 660 #661 #662 three varieties again one with an R over the Crown Fitzwilliam collection example sadly no other examples are listed I dont yet have one or the three listed .
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The Shilling two versions are listed #655 and 656 with small and large lettering Rogers mentions the R above the crown for his 656 variety I don't think he had seen one as it is marked RRR* without an image this one below is 655 ...the reverse is with SHILLING with serifs and small lettering on the obverse fitz example CM.2754-2003
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Florin : #649 and 650 were known to Rogers one with small lettering and one with larger lettering 0.6 and 1.2 mm respectively this is a NEW unlisted type with an R s above the Crown it seems to correspond with a shilling 656 listed and maybe that the Half Crown and the Florin exist in this format too which would suggest then at least 3 issue types. it is interesting in Rogers as you can see below from the collection in the Fitzwilliam he has this variety but it is not listed in the book although perhaps I simply cannot see the image well in the book
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Half Crown : these are from my collection #642 white plated iron small lettering . Oh I see that the image of the large letter version exists in their the collection of D Vorley ( does anyone recognise that collector) #643
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I do not have the Sovereign and no half Sovereign is listed in Rogers or a Crown specifically identified as BALMBERGER's and yet two half crown versions are listed so I am sure there is a good chance there are at least two versions of the former around somewhere. Or the Balmberger, Nurnberger Spielmarke and the BAVARIEN ones replaced the others. It would seem strange that all came the same factory of C Balmberger and made between 1893 until 1900. The date of 1887 misleads us to think this may have been the date of the issue but it uses the T Brock portrait not issued until 1893. the images below are from the Fitzwilliam Museum the larger denominations sadly have not been imaged I will continue to search for those that appear missing but again if anyone knows of any please let me know .
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Sorry I still have to list the Balmbergers...these are a special group referred to as Crude copies and you are right they are pretty ugly ...like the evasion copies I think the uglier the are the scarcer they are LOL well I suppose if someone gave you a one as a present you would think what a S****e present and fling it !!! I call these ones the "ol big nose" type
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It may seem completely off topic in the Pre decimal forum to discuss these toy coins but there is scope to make new discoveries and add to information available on them. At the time they would have been important teaching aids to children. Of course you have to have a microscope and search for them and be open minded about possibilities of new variations as the texts are sparse. PLEASE add your own examples if you have any ..thanks
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I thought it best to carry on with the Balmbergers after that little digression. Sometimes it is hard on the eyes carrying out the initial selection of these little characters . Perhaps I just need better lighting Just one last one f the holed 3 pence I have just noticed that there may be a slight difference in the design on one of the Jubilee head big noses . One which is brass but has been coated in something seems in a few ways unusual the crown reaches forwards towards the R at the base of the portrait the cutting seems to show differences the pearls almost touch the veil the clover and rose are different. So this may be a slight variation of the type . The design is much closer to the White Metal version but this one is most definitely Brass. Although there are still differences between these two
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apologies for my grammar seemed to make sense at the time ...above
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I had not seen one since you showed this one
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the similarity of the two must mean they were pretty much made as bad as this out of the factory either that or I have the the coin from the Fitzwilliam collection and someone has sold it on... LOL
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OK thank you understand now
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what is a plate coin?
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The Fitz example cat # CM.2735-2003
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This last one I am unsure where it sits in the catalogue details are very poor on it stylistically is is closer to the TRUE #619 described by Rogers in section 31 there is some evidence that a loop may have been removed some file marks where it should sit. Actually the example in Rogers shows the reverse almost identical in its crudeness and hat I thought to be wear I will try bring in the example in the Fitzwilliam collection to compare it
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Rogers places two within #619 but they are in truth different one shows L CUR LAUER MURNEARO the second LOUR LAU/ORE MURNEARO the second example he shows as a small Loop version in the Royal Mint Collection this one did once have a loop attached so I think we can say that is how it was issued but should really be reassigned a number other than 619 but nothing is available
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One example of the white metal version I have an an error again drilled crudely made and off centre likely unique interestingly however the drill hole, whilst misplaced, is still through the crown . It may well be that this belongs to a second group of copes which read L OUR Laure MURNEARO if s this is the only one known in silver while metal the others below in brass from Section 31 Rogers corresponding to #619 ??
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The rarer variety is nickel silver pretty much the same as the brass version but just in white metal again Rogers notes they are always found with a hole #551
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I suppose this next little group illustrates that Lauer became the leader in these toy coins. They eventually begin to be copied but the coins have very crude designs . They are pretty ugly and of very poor quality Section 21 b #550 Brass and always holed they are pretty scarce
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Oh yes perhaps
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just to finish off The Sovereign
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