AardHawk

In the past the Unc Mint Set issues and circulation issues for some denominations (including the fifty pence) differed with the letters being placed further or closer to the edge.

There is a very interesting letter in Coin Monthly that postulates that this is really a 3 over 2 variety. Mr Alexander, the writer of the letter contributed to many CM articles, including the excellent series "Variants of the Modern British Penny 1895-1967". What do you guys think of his hypothesis?

I am slowly digitizing my reference data. Here is all the Coin Monthly Farthing data http://www.mediafire.com/?rgecwuq8oll54hq

Do you know of another file sharing site?

I have created a pdf of the article at http://www.mediafire.com/?vmxr5ntsc8g6pux

Here's V.R.Court's survey results from Coin Monthly Sept 1972.

I couldn't agree with you more. For me the purest form of coin collecting is sifting through one's change looking for elusive varieties. I known others have absolutely no interest in varieties, but it is worth noting that every working die produced has its own unique fingerprint, so an understanding of these differences would go a long way to combating forgeries and verifying the authenticity of coins in one's collection.

This thread explains the various varieties of small 10p. http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4566&st=0&p=35535&hl=aardhawk&fromsearch=1entry35535

I agree.

And here's the Pl. 14 image.

V.R.Courts survey published in Coin Monthly Oct 1972 may answer your question. He does not use Freeman's notation so don't confuse his notation with the one you are using. I also believe that the £1050 that he refers to is the total value of coins of all dates that he used to extract his sample from. Court's 1A (Freeman's 2A) must be extremely scarce if it exists at all. I keep looking! Freeman only records proofs for his 1A & 1B and assigns a rarity of R8 (12,001-20,000) & R10 3,501-7,000) to them.

Just the sort of reply I'de expect from a supermarket.

Yes there is. Stop discussing the high value that you are prepared to pay for coins. Replica coin production is quite legal in China, so its not going to stop if its profitable to produce them. I suppose that you could get all your coins graded, serial numbered etched on edge and registered. Then when you sell, people could look the actual coin up in the registry and determine if its genuine or not. The other alternative is not stop ramping up the market by paying inflated prices. This is after all a hobby for most of us and not a speculative investment game.

I am not sure if that is true! With the introduction of uncirculated sets in 1982 the mint used the same reverse dies for the proof and uncirculated and a different die for circulation. This true of all the denominations. On the 50p they made the lettering smaller and further from the rim on the 50p proofs and uncirculated than the circulated. Its only about 0.2 of a millemeter though. This is certainly true for 1983 so it may be true for 1985. I don't have a circulation 1985 50p to check it however.

I am not a fan of slabbing or grading services, but in this case I think you are right. I see that A.H.Baldwin are agents for PCGS. I think that I will get in contact with them. Thanks all for your help.

Out of a mintage of about 2,000,000 only about 50 are known to exist. The 2000 edition of Krause puts a value of $1000 on an UNC. There is one for sale on US ebay with a buy-it-now of $1600. I know that there is interest in them in the far east, I just don't know how to sell them there. I suppose that I could put them on Malaysian ebay, but the problem is that the Chinese are producing fakes of them, which may stop people bidding on them. Any ideas Red?

Are there specialist auction houses, who might be interested in them?

According to the revised figures on the Royal Mint website 853,000 have been released into circulation.

Further research part 2. See the attached picture. Obv 6 corresponds to Obv 2 in my original picture above, and obv 4 corresponds to obv 3. I hope this doesn't lead to further confusion. I also show the steel rule I used. I tried measuring using a vernier dial caliper and also a micrometer, but nothing surpassed the steel rule and the mark I eyeball! As I said before, I don't ever want to do this again. It ranks one, on a scale of ten, and is about as satisfying as trying to distinguish the three reverse varieties of the 1958 halfpenny.

I have carried out some further rather tedious research. I really don't want to see another 1969 10p! In Wiles and Mackenzies original article (Coin Monthly Apr 1976) they described three obverses that were distinguished by their height. Each researcher had independently reached a similar conclusion. Researcher A listed the Obverses and sizes (in millemetres)as, obv 4 as 24.00, obv 5 as 24.25 minus and obv 6 as 24.25. and Researcher B as, obv 4 as 24.25, obv 5 as 24.15 and obv 6 as 24.50. I suspect that the 24.15 is a typo. The differences measured are because each used a different cross sections. The shame is that they don't tell us what they were so we cant peer review their results. They subsequently (Coin monthly Sept 1978) agreed a common set of measurements as follows, obv 4 as 24.25, obv 5 as 24.40 minus and obv 6 as 24.50. Unfortunetly Ron Stafford came along in (Coin Monthly Feb 1979) and repeated Researcher B's measurements that included the typo. Whatever the measurements I don't think that Ron is very impressed with these varieties and has pretty well dismissed them in his subsequent articles, Coin 28 Dec-10 Jan and Coin Monthly Dev 1983, as had A.W.Bacon before him in his article in Coin Monthly June 1978. Whether Davies was aware of these articles, I know not. His name is never recorded in either Coins & Medals or Coin Monthly of this era. Does anyone know where he popped up from? Is he still around? I have about 150 1969 10 pences. A bit OCD I know. They just came with other coins and accumulated. I can identify the three obverses fairly easily by measuring the cross section shown in turquoise on the attached photo. Yes I know it's a 1968. I make Obv 4, to be 23.75, obv 5, 23.90 and obv 6, 24.00. See the next post for a picture of these varieties.

DaveG, I've sent you an email.

That made me smile.

I believe that they started using chrome finished dies to increase their life. US mints had been using this innovation for some years years before this. I agree the finish they give is not very nice. Very similar to the glossy proofs of the era. DaveG, check out Wiles and MacKenzies article in the April 1976 issue of Coin Monthly. They say there are actually three obverses and all are different from the 1968 issues! I am going back through David Sealy's Coin Varieties articles in Coins & Medals. I think he reports on a few other varieties. One of them being a 1968 150 bead obverse.

I believe that the 1968 Obverse 2 and 3 usage is repeated for 1969. See the picture for examples. The incuse lines are difficult to see in the picture but are easily visible when the coin is slightly tilted. The Queens dress, hair and diadem have also been touched up. Both obverses have 151 border beads and the pointings are identical.

Who left the asylum door open. Mat check yourself back in pronto.