catalogue prices

[Guest custard1966_I'm_a_Guest]

First, thanks for the excellent site & forum.

Secondly, I want to raise the subject of catalogue prices and the problems I have with the latest catalogues.

Take an example,

The 2004 Richards Reference list an 1888 penny in about FDC as costing £45. (I'd love to know where from)

Spink 2004 lists the same coin as costing £175.

Also, the Richards Reference for 2000 lists the coin at the same price as in 2004.

Spink 1998 lists the coin at £50.

This is just an example, but in the copper & bronze pennies the same pattern appears.

To me the Richards Reference suggests ludicrously low prices that show virtually no increases over the past 4 years. The Spink prices seem a little inflated but with sensible increases.

Whom am I to believe ?

[Emperor Oli 0]

I'd personally believe Spinks, after all, they've been established since 1666 and so have a considerable knowledge! The Richard's reference does seem preposterously low however that's just my opinion

[Sylvester 15]

It also depends i should imagine, (i've never really given it much thought though about how they get the catalogue prices), but i suppose they would give the top price that has been paid for a coin.

So Spinks might have just seen more of them than Richards have.

Another alternative is that Richards might not have seen an FDC 1888 penny for a while, or perhaps they've used the bottom price paid for an example, whereas Spinks may have used the highest price? Is that possible? Well i'm just speculating cos i don't really know.

The Americans have many different price guides, they have books containing buying prices, some have dealers selling prices in, others have auction estimates? in...all three would give a different price. So it depend who the audience of the price guides are aiming their info at.

Thinking of Greysheets, Red Books and Blue books here, although i can't remember which one is which...and i'm sure there are others.

Sylvester.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Chaps,

I've often wondered about the differences too. I know that Spink have been going for ages etc but even a lot of their prices are well under/over what some coins sell for.

It also seems to me that the Spink market values pay no attention to the prices acheived in online auctions which I've often seen go far higher than the stated prices. They monitor the major World auction houses I'm sure but i'm convinced some international sales of British coins get away.

The Collectors coins books give another opinion drawn from British dealers lists and auctions in the real world and as far as I know they pay no attention to online goings on either.

The Spink catalogue is really much more than a price guide, it shapes the market, because most dealers price their coins using it. So whatever is in there is probably what you'll see coins being sold for!

So perhaps the Richards book reflects true worth with some coins.

You just need to find a dealer without a Spink copy!

And you won't.

Chris

www.predecimal.com

[Fenman 0]

Being a very novice coin collector at present, I'm totally intrigued by the inconsistency of coin prices, particularly the Spink to ebay difference.

Of course, living in the Yorkshire sticks I don't have great access to the bustling metropolis of anywhere with a resident coin dealer so it's ebay and online stores only for me.

Coins are cheaper on ebay but the people grading them are often a 'bit off'.

I got into coins recently after deciding to collect half and full sovereigns for investment purposes. There are some good bargains on ebay, and sometimes I wonder how dealers can sell for such low prices. Some stuff has gone for less than bullion value!

I quickly discovered all that glitters is not gold ... and to be honest, the most interesting coins are base metal anyway.

[Chris Perkins 228]

You nearly always find that common coins sell for around 75% at the most of Spink Catalogue prices. Rare or very choice coins often sell from more than catalogue value, often quite a bit more.

From a coin dealers point of view, ebay is bad, because it means that every member of the public can offer their granny's collection for sale and they no longer do what they would have done before ebay and sell to a coin dealer. They also don't grade coins, and when they do, it's usually completely wrong.

That's why I prefer to sell from my site, not eBay, not that I think I've priced things too expensively, some things do better on ebay. In fact, it's bloody useful for items that don't sell quickly, that you need to get shot of.

So if you're someone thinking of selling some coins...Do everyone a favour and sell to a dealer (Like, I don't know, me for example ) who will give you money right away, grade them properly and offer them with a proper money back guarantee at fair price.

[Guest PAUL_I'm_a_Guest]

Hi,

I've been following this forum for a while now - its really good. I thought it was about time I got involved!!

On the subject of coin values I think that, in general, a coin is worth as much as someone is willing to pay. I guess its down to the skill/experience of a dealer to estimate how much this will be. For this reason any catalogue can only be a guide.

I collect 17th and 18th century silver coins and have found you usually get what you pay for. If it sounds too good to be true it usually is! I, like some others in this forum, cannot believe what I see sometimes on Ebay. I've only bought two coins from there - The first I was really pleased with (but I paid the right price), but the second had been cleaned. This was not evident in either the description or photograph. From now on I'm going to stick to reputable dealers and coin fairs!!

Looking through my collection recently it occured to me how many pitfalls there are to the beginner. I've been collecting for years now but still have question marks over some of my aquisitions - has it been cleaned? Is the toning natural? Are those solder marks or skillfully plugged pinholes in the edge!! OK, perhaps a little paranoid with standards far to high!!

Paul

[Guest Eliza]

Coin guides are imperfect. You need a dealer to interpret the "values" as stated, according to the grade of the item. I have absolutely no faith in Ebay; but there are three dealers I work with exclusively, even just for my piddling collection of well-circulated 6ds. (And the odd half-crown.)

There's one numismatist of Chris's acquaintance (his "American associate") whose URL I check weekly. He'll give you the "book value" for something and then his "net price." It's a huge difference!

And when you *do* develop a relationship with a dealer, they look out for your interests. This is something that can NEVER be replicated on Ebay. Just this week I received a treat from my "regular" dealer, a watch chain of 16 3ds from 1875-1885, with a nicely soldered 1887 shilling at the very end. This dealer knows I collect holed Maundy coins for my coin bracelet and saw this and asked me if I wanted it.

It was shamefully inexpensive and it'll make a splendid bracelet.

I don't mean to embarrass our Moderator but he would be the dealer I would send anyone to, who wished to get "really involved" in numismatics.

Eliza

[Chris Perkins 228]

He's a good chap, but I find he's not all that good at responding to my emails. In fact I'm still waiting for a reply I think for some pictures I asked for. Good prices though, and a lot of British stuff for an American.

[Guest PAUL_I'm_a_Guest]

Yes, I know of the dealer you're refering to. I too have found myself using only a handful of dealers. It just gets harder the more you collect. I've had to use others when a coin I have needed has suddenly popped up for sale. I'd have to wait ages for my prefered dealers to get an example.

[Guest Eliza]

I think some clarification is in order. I mixed several pronouns in my earlier reply, regarding dealers:

It is *Chris* to whom I'd send new collectors! I didn't want to embarrass him by appearing to provide a shameless plug! This forum has provided great fellowship for EM collectors and a wonderful education for those of us located elsewhere than Europe & the UK.

Most of all, your dealer should be a fellow hobbyist who'll share stories of triumphs and defeats as well as warn you away from the pitfalls.

E.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Well that's clear then!

Thanks Eliza.

[Guest PAUL_I'm_a_Guest]

Yes, I gathered thats who you meant! Are you on commission?

I have only recently come across this website and have been impressed. Good to see so much information on one site. I would give it a try and will be keeping a look out for coins I need.

Paul

[Sylvester 15]

Of course, living in the Yorkshire sticks I don't have great access to the bustling metropolis of anywhere with a resident coin dealer so it's ebay and online stores only for me.

Yorkshire hey?

Have you tried that coin shop in York?

[Chris Perkins 228]

What do you need Paul, I'd be glad to keep an eye out. Although the old memory isn't what it used to be, are you on my mailing list?

[Fenman 0]

Of course, living in the Yorkshire sticks I don't have great access to the bustling metropolis of anywhere with a resident coin dealer so it's ebay and online stores only for me.

Yorkshire hey?

Have you tried that coin shop in York?

Actually I haven't, what's the name of it?

I live in West Yorkshire so haven't been to the northern area for some time - although I'd be prepared to if there are some bargain trinkets involved.

Thanks.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Fenman: I live in West Yorkshire so haven't been to the northern area for some time

Yorkshire is like a whole other Country isn't it! Wow.

[Sylvester 15]

Actually I haven't, what's the name of it?

I live in West Yorkshire so haven't been to the northern area for some time - although I'd be prepared to if there are some bargain trinkets involved.

Thanks.

If i recall rightly it's J. Smiths.

I know for a fact it's on the Shambles. (That little old rickety medieval street not far from York Minster)

He said he might not be open at the beginning of Feb though as he's going somewhere. But if you do get to go then it's well worth it, he's (from my experience) very honest, and prices things up decently.

That's where i got my bargin on that James II Half guinea from!

I often spend a good hour in there just looking before i buy, and about half an hour just looking afgter i've bought.

Depends what denomination you like most. Currently if you like half crowns and shield reverse sovereigns you can't really lose!

[Sylvester 15]

Fenman: I live in West Yorkshire so haven't been to the northern area for some time

Yorkshire is like a whole other Country isn't it! Wow.

Yeah it is, the attitude up here is quite the same...!

A whole different country down south...

Yorkshire encompasses West Yorks, South Yorks, North Yorks, and that other place now it's either East Yorks or the East Riding of Yorkshire, i'm not sure what it is officially called. (I think it's the latter).

York is technically the capital of the county, but then again there is Leeds...

[Fenman 0]

Hehehe

Thanks for the advice chaps.

I'll make a note of the contact in York. I do remember the Shambles from a previous visit - it's an 'Olde Worlde' section of the city, and very lovely. Lots of ankle-snapping cobbled roads which are a throwback to the Good Old Days

Asoulutely right about Yorkshire being split into four: East Yorkshire calls itself something new each year. Humberside the last time I checked but it's constantly in flux so I could be wrong.

Still, I'd much sooner walk through any other town than Leeds with a pocket full of bullion coins.

Oh no, Sir !!

Thanks again for the contact.

[Sylvester 15]

Still, I'd much sooner walk through any other town than Leeds with a pocket full of bullion coins.

Oh no, Sir !!

Thanks again for the contact.

What even Bradford?

No i must admit i do try to avoid Leeds at all cost, can't stand the place if truth be known.

Syl.

[Guest PAUL_I'm_a_Guest]

Thanks Chris,

I'm not really looking for anything in particular at the moment so I've no specific 'wants'. Its a case of whatever catches my eye!!

I'm getting married this year so unfortunately my coin budget has been significantly reduced from what it was before!! If, however, you come across a nice example of a 1688 halfcrown in VF+ at a reasonable price I might try and buy it on the quiet!!! Been looking for a good example for ages.

P.