Crown 1902 - Edward VII

[The Coinery 32]

Hi.

I am looking for information to help me research and  search to collect this set.

Does anyone out there have information to more variations of this coin or one for sale which is an upgrade or a gap giller for me ?

To my knowledge there are 5 Crowns 1902:

i/  Esc 361 - Standard Coin

ii/  ESC 362 - Matt Proof

iii/  Matt Proof surfaces with a bright edge - Edge as found on currency pieces.

iv/  Low 2 in date

v/  B.P. struck over another B.

I have examples of the first, Second and Fifth Crown slabbed by CGS respectively at grades 80, 91 and 70.

I am both seeking information if there are any other variations, looking for upgrades to these grades and also actively seeking to purchase these.

[coinkat 21]

I have not searched for the low 2... is there a premium for that variety? Also, did CGS recognize the B.P. over another B?

My experience with this date from across the pond is that one can find nice matte proofs and commercial strikes if one searches and is patient. However, both NGC and PCGS are very strict and rarely seem to grade them as a 65 or 66. 64 in both of types is as good as I have done buying raw and submitting. I suspect your CGS 91 is an amazing coin- congrats

[VickySilver 830]

Yes indeed, that's my experience as well. The only thing I can say is that they are not at all consistent in grading of these 1902 mattes, not to mention those of later date "non-standard" years. One can only speculate as to the reasons because I can not say I agree at all with some of the grading on individual specimens. I have also seen some auctions such as Goldbergs that have numerous specimens of both the crown and the larger gold with what appear to be very liberal grading. On the other hand I did get one of the old ANACS graded matte pieces that was in fact far better than its "60" grade.

 

91 has got to be a sensational coin and would like to see well-lighted pictures in Hi Def of it....

[The Coinery 32]

21 hours ago, coinkat said:

I have not searched for the low 2... is there a premium for that variety? Also, did CGS recognize the B.P. over another B?

My experience with this date from across the pond is that one can find nice matte proofs and commercial strikes if one searches and is patient. However, both NGC and PCGS are very strict and rarely seem to grade them as a 65 or 66. 64 in both of types is as good as I have done buying raw and submitting. I suspect your CGS 91 is an amazing coin- congrats

Hi CoinKat

With the exception of the Standard 1902 crown the rest seem to pass hands for just a little more than the cost of a standard providing the grade is comparable.

Thank you for your kind complement. It took me over 35 years to obtain that coin.

I have never had major issues with NGC or PCGS. My only tiny critique is that the american grading houses do not define the variations of the british coins but this is understandable as with the exception of a few british coins the vast majority cannot be classed as Anglo-American so the experience and maybe interest is just not there. Same with CGS in England I would not grade a high end american coin at CGS - Horses for Courses !!

 

[The Coinery 32]

19 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Yes indeed, that's my experience as well. The only thing I can say is that they are not at all consistent in grading of these 1902 mattes, not to mention those of later date "non-standard" years. One can only speculate as to the reasons because I can not say I agree at all with some of the grading on individual specimens. I have also seen some auctions such as Goldbergs that have numerous specimens of both the crown and the larger gold with what appear to be very liberal grading. On the other hand I did get one of the old ANACS graded matte pieces that was in fact far better than its "60" grade.

 

91 has got to be a sensational coin and would like to see well-lighted pictures in Hi Def of it....

Hi VickySilver

Thank you for your confirmation upon the quantity of varieties. I have only been on this site a week and I was horrified, well just miffed, to find that there were 50+ variations of Edward VII Pennies. I believed there to be under 30 variations.

I also collect £5 gold and across all the grading companies the grades and indeed valuations can vary noticeably.

I will take a photo of the 91 grade 1902 crown and send to you. It took me 35yrs to find that example.

I am always looking for very high grade Edward VII coins and if you hear of any denomination for sale I would appreciate a "Heads Up" as I believe the terminology is these days 

[VickySilver 830]

Wow, like your enthusiasm after 35 years! 

Not to pirate the thread, but the just-finished Heritage auction had a currency 1937 crown in NGC65 that appeared a bit pedestrian in my eyes for the grade and they had some '02 crowns earlier that just did not seem to match the grade; the American TPGs are very hard on these usually in my experience as they do not tolerate the "mint wipes" on the '02s or any cheek/eyebrow chatter on currency crown bits.

[Garrett 76]

13 hours ago, The Coinery said:

I will take a photo of the 91 grade 1902 crown and send to you. It took me 35yrs to find that example.

 

Would have loved to have seen your face when you realised 35 years of looking was finally to be rewarded !

By the way, please post the photo here if you will, I am sure the rest of us would love to see it.

cheers Garrett.

[coinkat 21]

Your criticism of US TPG is justified in terms of overlooking British varieties- In all fairness, some varieties have a way of remaining a well guarded secret. Unless one knows what to look for, it can escape the attention of those that one would anticipate to recognize it. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way it is...

[divemaster 11]

 

This is the 1902 matt proof with bright edge

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2016 by divemaster

[divemaster 11]

Wow sorry about that, first time I have ever posted a picture..........................

[Paulus 1,975]

Ah, so that's yours DM? It was admired on here a couple of years back!

[Garrett 76]

I'm guessing it is one of the Coinery's crowns which DM has posted for us.

Thanks ! 

[Peter 615]

Sometimes I think coin collecting is like climbing Everest.Others have been there before but suddenly you discover there is an elevator.

[divemaster 11]

9 hours ago, Garrett said:

I'm guessing it is one of the Coinery's crowns which DM has posted for us.

Thanks ! 

No its mine, honestly

[Paulus 1,975]

Here are pics of the CGS 'finest known' of the 5 types The Coinery refers to in the OP:

1902.01 Standard type current population level 1/31

1902.02 Matt Proof current population level 1/40 - not one of CGS' finest pics, but then they were all pretty ropey back then (2009 ish?)

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Paulus

[Paulus 1,975]

1902.03 Matt Proof Bright Edge current population level 1/1 - divemaster's coin I believe

1902.04 Low 2 in Date current population level 1/1

Edited April 24, 2016 by Paulus

[Paulus 1,975]

1902.05 B over B in B.P. current population level 1/2

[coinkat 21]

The top coin looks terrific- easily 64 by US standards if not 65. For this date and the way TPG looks at these, seeing in hand is really needed. I can see 65- If I understand this correctly, CGS graded this an 80.

The Matte Proofs are an equal challenge- I see this one as a 66-looks as if it was just removed from the case. And CGS graded this a 91.

Both coins are fantastic- Thanks for sharing pictures

Edited April 24, 2016 by coinkat
added CGS 91 grade for the Matte Proof

[Paulus 1,975]

CGS 82 (MS 64-65) for the top coin

[divemaster 11]

UIN	0020028
Coin Type	CR.E7.1902.03
Origin	Great Britain
Description	Crown Edward VII 1902
Variety	Matt Proof surfaces with a bright edge. (Edge as found on the currency pieces)
Standard References	CGS variety 03
Provenance	Ex-London Coins Auction A136 4/3/2012 Lot 1780
Grade	CGS 92
Population Level	1 out of 1 Finest Known
Value	£ 2000

 

[divemaster 11]

Just me playing with pictures now. I have now learnt how to post a picture straight from CGS yeeeee

 

[The Coinery 32]

6 hours ago, divemaster said:

No its mine, honestly

I aspire to have coins as high grade as Dive Master. His rejects would be very welcome improvements to my Crown collection !!!

[divemaster 11]

Hi Coinery (we have spoken before) thanks for that positive comment, much appreciated.  

[Garrett 76]

11 hours ago, divemaster said:

No its mine, honestly

My apologies.

It's a stunning coin ! 

[PWA 1967 2,135]

23 hours ago, divemaster said:

 

This is the 1902 matt proof with bright edge

 

 

 

Ones like this i dont have a clue about.

However to realise thats really nice and QUALITY.......Hat off and one to keep.

Edited April 24, 2016 by PWA 1967