new collector, need help with my lord kitchener £2 coin and others-

[zakkilgannon 0]

Hi everybody, new guy here. Nice to join your community! So I've worked in jobs for years where i operate a till all day in busy shops/pubs taking peoples monies and counting tills/making floats so i come across quite a bit of coinage most days. Been looking for something new to collect after getting over 300 rocks/crystals and thousands of pokemon cards. anyways I like shiny things so i guessed coins is a nice idea that doesnt ever lose face value so isn't as many risks if i need to sell ever. Last 6 months or so I've been swapping nice coins i come across for my own change from my wallet. I should add I'm very good at giving/taking money and giving peoples change correctly I don't ever use the till to work out change my brain is more reliable and I'm sure to put the correct money in for what i want to swap. Never had any issues with my tills being wrong or missing money etc I'm very careful. All the 1p change people don't wan't always leave the till up anyways. So to the point - I've got a few coins here and I'd just like to see if anybody could help me out with the world of coin collecting. Things listed on ebay or most popular selling sites are way off inflated in value and I'm struggling to understand real values/levels of rarity. For example a coin I have here to talk about is listed for £899 on ebay, exactly what I have infront of me in my hand. from a seller with rather high positive reputable feedback. However i've seen coins for close to face value that seem exactly the same to me.

   Every coin I have is in nice condition. None are battered and real bad scratched up, I dont take coins like that and to this day still regret leaving a Kew gardens 50p because it wasn't so shiny or clean. In my defence I had just started getting interested and didn't realise what it was at the time. I can update this with pics if/when i work out how to upload/attatch them. 

    First of all I have a 2005 St. Pauls Cathedral £2 coin. It features two errors - writing around side edge of coin is upside down and reads tails side up instead of heads side up. The dots going around the queens head on the center part of coin only go about half way around the queens head.

   Next a 2014 Lord KItchener £2 coin. 3 errors - Again the writing on side edge is upside down; and the dots around queens head are half missing. Addidionally, the words "YOUR COUTRY NEEDS" are so small and blurred they're nearly unreadable and only the letter U from the "YOU" underneath crosses over into the outer brass section. The bottom of the Y and O are cut off at the end of silver center section into the tiny groove where it meets the brass edge. 

   Now a 2006 Brunel Paddington Station £2 coin that features the arches.This too reads tails sides up making the writing on edge upside down and the dots around the queens head seem to be half in silver coloured middle part and half in copper coloured outer edge. Don't know if this is rare or not I just don't recall ever seeing that before. 

   Just remembered I also have the Gunpowder plot anniversary £2 coin with the "pember" spelling mistake. 

 

If any kind person here could give me some info regarding what I have i'd be so appreciative. Also any tips on what to look out for in future - I've looked for ages for a coin forum and this one looks great! Just a general idea of rarity and if its worth holding onto or not or if it actually does have any increased value like ones i've seen listed online. I guess not sadly however as I'm a realist lol. As I said i could upload pics if needed if somebody could kindly tell me easiest way how. i'll just edit this post. OH, I'd also like to ask is there any safe easy way just to give the coins a bit of a clean to get the niice shine back? or is it best to leave them as they are? Just don't want to damage anything. Thanks for reading (: 

[Nordle11 564]

Hi Zakkil, welcome to the forum, you're in good hands here  

About the coins you've mentioned, it sounds (to me, at least) like they could be fakes, generally the mint doesn't make errors like the writing being updside down but that is the sort of thing a counterfeiter would do. The pemember error is genuine, although not worth more than it's value really, there are just too many about. About the cleaning, please don't do it.

I'd definitely grab yourself a book on decimal coinage, you'll see an ad at the top for Rotographic books, we really can't recommend them enough. There's also a decimal section with a ton of info for general browsing, you might find some interesting stuff in there.

Get some pictures up of your best coins in the meantime, the easiest way to do it is to click bottom left (of the text box) where it says 'Drag files here to attach, or choose files...' and upload directly from your computer, once it's uploaded it will automatically show once you submit the post. If it's a size issue, get the photo up on your computer screen and take a screenshot, then crop the picture in paint and save it as a JPEG, that will get it under the 500kb limit.

 

[IanB 175]

Hi Zakkil,

Hello and welcome. As Nordle has said grab the books and put some pictures on.

All the best

Ian

[bhx7 222]

Hi Zakkil

When it comes to the writing around the out rim of a coin it can be either readable with obverse (head) side up or reverse (tail) side up. The way in which the coin outer inscription is done has no bearing on orientation. Also there are so many errors on modern decimal coinage, especially over the past 10 years, that minor flaws and errors that would have made a major difference in pre decimal (Duodecimal) coinage just do not have the same impact or collectability, unless major  or very unusual ones. Photo's would be great as that would help to see if this is the case.

I collect both Decimal and Predecimal coinage and like Nordle states above good books are the way to go. You cannot go wrong with "Collectors Coins - Decimal issues of the United Kingdom 2016" by Chris Henry Perkins - ROTOGRAPHIC. The full range of books by Chris and the other writers at Rotographic are spot on. You can also buy digital versions to carry around on your mobile, etc...

Just like studying and learning about your specimens or your Pokemon cards, the more you read up and learn the better your choices and the less buying mistakes when and if you come to purchasing coins. This forum is also a great place to learn with like minded and fair people.

Welcome to the forum and happy collecting...

Brian

[Nordle11 564]

PAH, shows what I know about edge writing on decimal coinage  

[Martinminerva 347]

Indeed, the edge writing is put onto decimal blanks first by being squeezed through rollers, then the lettered blanks are hopper fed in a totally separate process into a normal coining press with a plain milled collar.  As the letters are incuse, the milling doesn't tend to obliterate the letters, though some metal flow can result in those very common "pemember" type 'errors' with missing serifs and the like.

But since they are hopper fed, there is a 50:50 chance as to which way up they land in the coining press! So all those eBay "rarities" are anything but - there will be the same number of each!!  Just check out a handful of pocket change, and you'll have examples both ways up.

Has anyone actually paid hundreds to an eBay seller for such a coin?? Doesn't it cost them money to list them if they are buy-it-nows? Surely these sellers will soon learn that these coins are worth just a pound! Or two, if it's a two pound coin!!

Anyway, welcome indeed - going through change is a great way to start into coin collecting, and then with a bit of reading up on things, including this forum, you'll soon get into the swing of things and start to push your collection back into pre-decimal lines.

[Nutsaboutcoins 105]

Welcome,  As above buy the book, you wont regret it 

Martin is right about edge lettering being 50:50, never pay heed to any eBay seller who says a coin is "Rare" it rarely is.

And don't forget to check your till for new £5 notes with a AA01 prefix.

 

Ian..   

[Paddy 1,831]

Yes I wish there were some way of stopping the constant stream of new "rareties" that Ebay sellers keep inventing. I regularly sell collectable decimal coinage at flea markets and I am approached almost every week by someone trying to tell me about the latest scarcity going for a fortune on the net. Poorly struck letters, missing dots and "upside down" lettering are standard fare. Then there are the attempts to declare some regular struck coin as rare - there was a concerted effort to make the Benjamin Britten 50p into another Kew Gardens recently.

Two rumours I am less sure are spurious, which someone here might be able to clarify:

The water lines across the face on the Olympics 2011 Aquatics 50p

The 2015 Battle of Britain 50p struck with the type 4 obverse instead of the type 5, resulting in a coin with no denomination.

 

[Paulus 1,979]

15 minutes ago, Paddy said:

 

The water lines across the face on the Olympics 2011 Aquatics 50p

 

 

This is a known error and can fetch a few hundred

[Chingford 166]

The Aquatics coin sell for a lot more now, one sold a few months back for £1,250.00 BIN on Ebay in its original sealed packaging, loose they seem to find their mark around £600/800 dependent on overall condition, these tend to be those removed for placing into the display before the rarity was discovered.

The Battle of Britain coin is not one I have heard before

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Chingford

[Paddy 1,831]

It seems to be real, though I am not sure how rare yet. This is one of many completed listings for them:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50p-2015-Battle-Of-Britain-ERROR-NO-DENOMINATION-Uncirculated-/182192563983?hash=item2a6b85e70f%3Ag%3AYToAAOSwvg9XWVVH&nma=true&si=zZhGW%252BO%252B5CIGHB58mUnWTxAkPqo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

It may not be an error as such, and it seems possible the early release coins in the folders were struck with the 4th bust (and no denomination) whereas the circulation run was struck with the 5th bust. Not found the 4th bust in circulation yet.

[Martinminerva 347]

Paddy is exactly right! The Battle of Britain coin was issued in sets and folders only initially (last year I think it was), and that was before the change of portrait. The circulation pieces issued more recently all have the new portrait. So it's not an error, but it is a valid variety!

Regarding the lines over the face swimming 50p, that too is not strictly an error but a (very rare) first issue before a change of design. The coin once minted proved to be too indistinct, so it was hastily redesigned with the lines removed and then issued in big numbers. Not sure how many first issue rare ones there were released, but certainly doesn't seem to be many. They tend to go for £800 plus.

[DaveG38 420]

14 hours ago, Chingford said:

The Aquatics coin sell for a lot more now, one sold a few months back for £1,250.00 BIN on Ebay in its original sealed packaging, loose they seem to find their mark around £600/800 dependent on overall condition, these tend to be those removed for placing into the display before the rarity was discovered.

The Battle of Britain coin is not one I have heard before

 

 

Both types are mentioned in the 2016 Spink catalogue, although curiously, the circulation issue of the 2015, new bust type, doesn't warrant an entry..

[Guest Lord kitchener £2 coin]

Hi guys i dont know much about coins but had a ww1 lord kitchener £2 coin can u please tell me how can u spot errors

[Peckris 2 2,163]

There's something wrong with your post - I've tried quoting your post and just deleting the picture, but each time I do it deletes the text as well.

Anyway, my question is : what makes you think there's an error?

[Sword 1,516]

 

15 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

There's something wrong with your post - I've tried quoting your post and just deleting the picture, but each time I do it deletes the text as well.

Anyway, my question is : what makes you think there's an error?

He obviously doesn't know what would constitute a coin error and was hoping you would tell him. 

Upside down edge letters is the norm and can be found on 50% of the coins, missing beads and illegible writing are due to poor minting. A young Kitchener without his mustache would be very much worth finding! 😄

 

 

[DrLarry 443]

I tell you though these new £1 are so covered with the most awful flaws , metal running all over the place across the portrait and around the edges they are an embarrassment really perhaps some of the most terrible examples of British coining I have seen.  

 

Although I would argue there is a purpose behind these lines .....and marks LOL

Edited August 4, 2018 by DrLarry

[DrLarry 443]

One of my neighbours asked me to list one of these £2 coins with the lettering upside down, I listed it for him for a week and no one at all was interested.  I suppose as they go into the edgeding shoot some do flip over I don't think the machine is able reconcile the problem I suppose when you are churning out millions and no human in sight for 1/2 mile of  conveyor belt it is hardly surprising this happens.  even when the designs could be beautiful they just look rubbish , flat, miserable, uninspiring full of errors, and people become disinterested.  I am sure they will soon do themselves out of a job or perhaps they might release old designs.  Oh God! I sound like an old man  

Edited August 4, 2018 by DrLarry

[Sword 1,516]

3 minutes ago, DrLarry said:

One of my neighbours asked me to list one of these £2 coins with the lettering upside down, I listed it for him for a week and no one at all was interested.  I suppose as they go into the edgeding shoot some do flip over I don't think the machine is able reconcile the problem I suppose when you are churning out millions and no human in sight for 1/2 mile of  conveyor belt it is hardly surprising this happens.  even when the designs could be beautiful they just look rubbish , flat, miserable, uninspiring full of errors, and people become disinterested.  I am sure they will soon do themselves out of a job or perhaps they might release old designs.  Oh God! I sound like an old man  

When the edge lettering is applied, half the coins are randomly facing upwards and half are downwards. Hence, half of all the £2 coins have upside down lettering. 

[Martinminerva 347]

On 21 September 2016 at 9:26 PM, Martinminerva said:

Indeed, the edge writing is put onto decimal blanks first by being squeezed through rollers, then the lettered blanks are hopper fed in a totally separate process into a normal coining press with a plain milled collar.  As the letters are incuse, the milling doesn't tend to obliterate the letters, though some metal flow can result in those very common "pemember" type 'errors' with missing serifs and the like.

But since they are hopper fed, there is a 50:50 chance as to which way up they land in the coining press! So all those eBay "rarities" are anything but - there will be the same number of each!!  Just check out a handful of pocket change, and you'll have examples both ways up.

See my post above... Actually the letters are put on first, but it's the same outcome!  Upside down letters are not of any consequence at all - they really are 50:50 chance which way they come out of the hopper!