Insurance cover for a modest collection

[Leo 91]

Hello,

My collection is not very large and I don't own expensive pieces, but it would kill me if I got burgled.

My house insurance covers it in theory - its value is within the limits of a single item under my policy, but in case of a loss and claim I would be unable to surrender proof of purchase for all the pieces. The insurer has told me that the best would be to get the collection valuated.

I'm not wild about this as I suspect it would cost me a lot, not to mention that my collection is constantly growing.

How are you dealing with this issue? Can photographs be used as proof of ownership in case of claim?

[Rob 3,246]

3 minutes ago, Leo said:

Hello,

My collection is not very large and I don't own expensive pieces, but it would kill me if I got burgled.

My house insurance covers it in theory - its value is within the limits of a single item under my policy, but in case of a loss and claim I would be unable to surrender proof of purchase for all the pieces. The insurer has told me that the best would be to get the collection valuated.

I'm not wild about this as I suspect it would cost me a lot, not to mention that my collection is constantly growing.

How are you dealing with this issue? Can photographs be used as proof of ownership in case of claim?

Most dealers will carry out valuations, but it depends on what you want to insure it for. If to cover replacement at cost, then it would obviously be necessary to provide evidence of that cost. If insured to current market values based on reference tomes, then a regular review of the insured sum will be required and bear in mind that could go both up and down from year to year. In terms of cost, that will depend pro-rata on the number of items to be valued as the time required for each coin would not be wildly different. In terms of cost, time is money, so an hourly rate based on the average wage plus expenses is a reasonable ballpark figure.

Insurance companies will allow you to change valuations during the year, usually accompanied by an adjustment in premium. Keeping images of the collection would be good for proof of ownership if recovering property, but a chocolate teapot in terms of proving that you paid £xxx for it. I offer receipts for sales at fairs, but less than 10% of buyers want one, You are not alone.

In terms of insurance premiums, the specialist insurers will generally want 0.5% of the sum insured as a premium. There's an element of swings and roundabouts in how the premiums are apportioned, but the total rarely diverges by much.

[1949threepence 3,368]

Whilst insurance is a good idea, I'd also say that however good your policy is, it's not going to be able to replace the actual items you have lost, which, dependent on your collection, may have taken decades to build up, and would take decades to replace. 

The trick is to find a safe and environmentally sound hiding place, so that in the event of a house break, other things get nicked, but your collection remains unfound by the thieving scrotes who have broken in.

Easier said than done, but I suppose the mantra would be to use your nous and imagination. 

  

 

[Leo 91]

Thank you for your reply.

Quote

If insured to current market values based on reference tomes, then a regular review of the insured sum will be required

So if a dealer performs a valuation, it will typically have a validity of, say, a year, and will need to be reviewed otherwise I go back to square one.

[Rob 3,246]

22 minutes ago, Leo said:

Thank you for your reply.

So if a dealer performs a valuation, it will typically have a validity of, say, a year, and will need to be reviewed otherwise I go back to square one.

Not back to square one, but it leaves you open to accusations of under or over insurance. Probably not something to worry about too much given a coin can sell for quite a spread above and below a nominal 'book' price. Prices generally aren't going to change by more than a few percent year on year except for the current favourites. Basically an insurance company is only trying to ensure that you aren't claiming for multiples of an item's true worth. If the actual value of your collection is something you obsess about, you will buy the latest price reference just to satisfy your curiosity. At this point, you would, or should, know whether the value is out of line with cover.

It all becomes irrelevant if people manage their affairs in a tidy manner and keep proper records, as you can then counter claims of over insurance by pointing out the description which matches a figure in a book, and similarly a cost price for a given item if unadjusted for changes.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Rob

[Leo 91]

I kick myself for not asking for receipts of many coins I have purchased in shops, fairs etc. as these easily account for half of my coin money.

I'm thinking maybe it's the moment now to carry out a proper valuation, put an overall figure, insure it, and from there on maintain proper records as you point out.

I guess my fear is that after all this trouble, I get burgled eventually and my insurer doesn't accept my claim because the valuation is three years old.

Thanks again for your help.

[mrbadexample 1,006]

I'm in the same boat. No receipts for anything purchased prior to about 2016. Which is most of what I have. 

[PWA 1967 2,277]

19 minutes ago, mrbadexample said:

I'm in the same boat. No receipts for anything purchased prior to about 2016. Which is most of what I have. 

I can send you some receipts for the ones you got off me Jon although as you dont pay me the total will just be ...........

F@CK ALL.

[Nordle11 564]

Can you backtrack for receipts? As in, I don't have receipts but I have a full list of the date I bought which coin, how much I paid and where I got it from..

[PWA 1967 2,277]

21 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

Can you backtrack for receipts? As in, I don't have receipts but I have a full list of the date I bought which coin, how much I paid and where I got it from..

Not worth the aggro i wouldnt think Matt and cant see many dealers going out of there way ?.

Even after or should you get them what use are they unless you were turning them over quickly and the money you received going into a bank ?.

Edited January 13, 2017 by PWA 1967

[Nordle11 564]

1 minute ago, PWA 1967 said:

Not worth the agro i wouldnt think Matt and cant see many dealers going out of there way ?.

Even after or should you get them what use are they unless you were turning them over quickly and the money you received going into a bank ?.

I mean for insurance purposes, proof of purchase and all that jazz.

[PWA 1967 2,277]

Sorry i see what you mean  

[1949threepence 3,368]

I've kept all my receipts for coin purchases made since 2011. They are nearly all hard copy. I've printed out the e copies and keep them all tagged together in date order. 

Still got many coins without a receipt though. 

Just thinking back to that fantastic 1922 penny with 1927 reverse that Steve sold for - was £7k ish last year? - he actually got that in his change when he was a young guy, so there's no way that could ever have a receipt.     

 

[Leo 91]

On 13/01/2017 at 10:36 AM, mrbadexample said:

I'm in the same boat. No receipts for anything purchased prior to about 2016. Which is most of what I have. 

Do you have your collection insured?

A year ago I wouldn't have given a damm but recently my auntie got burgled and I'm really paranoid about this sort of stuff!

[Rob 3,246]

5 minutes ago, Leo said:

Do you have your collection insured?

A year ago I wouldn't have given a damm but recently my auntie got burgled and I'm really paranoid about this sort of stuff!

A typical 1/2% of the insured value is hardly going to break the bank given it is only £5 per £1K insured. Surely that has to be good value if it gives you peace of mind, however much or not your collection is worth. Even if your collection was worth 100K it would only mean foregoing a £500 coin once a year.

Insurance can't cover the emotional loss, and the almost impossible task of replacing like with like.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Rob

[Leo 91]

Quote

A typical 1/2% of the insured value is hardly going to break the bank given it is only £5 per £1K insured. Surely that has to be good value if it gives you peace of mind, however much or not your collection is worth.

Absolutely - I took your note about the valuation, I'm going to look for someone in the area.

[Rob 3,246]

Just now, Leo said:

Absolutely - I took your note about the valuation, I'm going to look for someone in the area.

They might have a minimum sum insured value to make it worth their while, but if that is the case, then the value of your collection is likely to come within the remit of your contents insurance. There is almost certainly going to be a band above the contents limits but below the specialist's minimum cover where the %age figure is higher, but it still won't be a disaster.

The problem is that people mostly seem to view insurance, reference books and ancilliary spending as money that should be spent on coins. They need to appreciate that you have to buy into the whole package, just as Plod gets a bit p'd off when you drive without car insurance, or the car breaks down when you don't get it serviced.

[Peter 615]

1949 3d has given you the best advice.I have great hiding places for my coins and a safe.What more do you need?

[mrbadexample 1,006]

2 hours ago, Leo said:

Do you have your collection insured?

A year ago I wouldn't have given a damm but recently my auntie got burgled and I'm really paranoid about this sort of stuff!

Only under the probably inadequate general house insurance. Something I will look at when we move in the not too distant future.

[Nick 329]

12 hours ago, mrbadexample said:

Only under the probably inadequate general house insurance. Something I will look at when we move in the not too distant future.

You may find that your house contents insurance will specifically exclude your coin collection.  Even if they do not, an unlisted collection is treated as a single item and therefore would quickly exceed the single item reimbursement limit.

[mrbadexample 1,006]

4 hours ago, Nick said:

You may find that your house contents insurance will specifically exclude your coin collection.  Even if they do not, an unlisted collection is treated as a single item and therefore would quickly exceed the single item reimbursement limit.

I've told them about it and they tell me it's covered but I very much doubt it is adequately protected. Something I need to look at.

[declan03 149]

Maybe a waste of time with receipts if your house burns down. Unless you keep your receipts with a family member......and hope!!

[Leo 91]

I scan them all and upload them to cloud, just in case...

[1949threepence 3,368]

36 minutes ago, Leo said:

I scan them all and upload them to cloud, just in case...

Good thinking. Probably never need to retrieve them but it's definitely additional peace of mind. 

[Leo 91]

That's what I want to believe! Hopefully I will never have to put a claim.

For completeness of this tread that I initiated, I finally took out a policy with Catlin, broker being Highworth. They accepted my own schedule of insured items and valuation and gave me flexible terms to revise it.

Their quote was competitive, around 2-3% of the amount insured, which is modest. For high value collections the premium may be too high so maybe a proper valuation brings it down.