AN INHERITANCE & MY NEW & RAPIDLY GROWING COLLECTION...HEEEEELP!!

[ThePrepper 10]

Hi....as i mentioned recently i've just been given a fairly huge collection to add to my own....this new lot come from my sister-in-law and were part of her inheritance from her late uncle iggy....a keen outdoorsman, detectorist and carpenter by trade who's also presented his work personally in an audience with the pope and yes i've seen the photographs....blew me away.

polish catholic, one of his sisters is a nun and from everything i've heard the guy was a pretty superb fellow indeed and i feel very lucky and honoured to be entrusted with these beautiful coins....i've seen a lot of his cracking marquetry work and am now the proud owner of a collection that no doubt took him many years to put together....

its a very interesting collection dating back to the 1700's and whilst he doesnt appear to be a 'numismatist' in the search of perfect coins he was definitely a coin collector and there are nearly complete date runs of every type of silver british predecimal especially from victoria onwards and not a few copper/bronze....a lot are circulated, many indeed worn significantly but there is a huge number in very nice conditions indeed.....

since recently starting to collect again (i did somewhat over 20 years ago...u.s.. and morgan dollars) i've been getting into my british pennies which are clean and solid and in high grades....so no problem there.....but now this new lot are stressing me out....

I UNDERSTAND.....NEVER CLEAN YOUR COINS.....NEVER CLEAN YOUR COINS.

so....i cleaned some coins (and i have my reasons...coming in a minute)....i've been experimenting and learning for myself....i'm not stupid...i've done research and been careful and not risked anything silly....for example....

i took a nice condition but filthy silver u.s. half dollar that i had in duplicate....i soaked it in acetone (yes ''pure'' 99.9 percent)....i then rubbed it gently but thorougly with a johnsons cotton bud....its now beautiful with tone intact and dirt gone.....i've then taken the three different loupes i have and examined it under a halogen light....my eyesight is good....and i know a scratch when i see one. there are no scratches. so why does everyone say there will be?....on proofs maybe....on anything else....maybe i'm blind.

people also say acetone will dissolve surface grime like pva 'greenage' and the coin will just require rinsing....it does not. the acetone-affected pva greenage will still be on the surface of the coin in a film. it then comes off easily when rubbed.and why rinse the coin anyway? acetone evaporates.....quickly....and totally...unless they mean rub with (grease and sweat oozing) fingers under water but then hey, that wont remove the gunge from the detailed areas.... i've also soaked coins with 'paint' or similar on...which is attached firmly prior to soaking. the acetone does not dissolve it....rather weakens its attachment so it will then come  off when rubbed. and why do most posts i've rubbed say soak for a minute or two?.....acetone does not affect metal....you could leave it in there for years....unless its all about that 0.1 percent of impurity of course lol....but then tap water and even of course distilled water are not pure....theres no such thing as pure....and you could even rub under water with cotton lint free gloves rather than fingers i know....but they are not pure or 'lint free' either....as i said...theres no such thing as pure. i also find it hard to believe that sealing up these coins with pva and years of grime and impurity on them is a better thing for them than washing with acetone and a gentle rub.

i've also read acetone affects copper colouring.....it doesnt.....i've cleaned hundreds of pennies out of the many thousand i've got here and they are the same as before they had their bath.

and at the risk of being inflammatory....no intention...i just talk pretty straight and say how i see it....i've bought quite a few non-unc non-perfect non-slabbed-since-the-day-they-were-made pennies from dudes who are on this forum....dudes who say never clean your coins....and considering these coins are non-unc non-perfect non-slabbed-since-the-day-they-were-made its quite surprising that they have no dirt on them......ok they havnt been polished or put on a grinder but theyve certainly been washed....and therefore rubbed.

and i dont like the usage  of 'clean' and 'cleaned' and 'cleaning' and its complexities, dubiousness and translation. i think washed (acetone/water/gentle rub) and polished (duraglit/angle grinder/exposure to a c4 blast) do the job appropriately.

and whats this about 'dabbing' with papertowel....i've got beautiful valuable coins here so covered in pva that if you were to soften the pva with acetone and then try to 'dab' it off....well....it makes me laugh. and i'm sure i'm not the only person who's had pva affected coins that need more than a dab....maybe i should learn more manners and ask the coin politely to shed its green skin without the need for a johnsons ear bud? lol....ok....i'm getting raw.

so....rather than everyone repeating what everyone else says in a politically correct manner for fear of being shot down by other hypocrites could someone please step up and say look dude....DO THIS! because everywhere i go i see conflicting 'advise' and opinions and evidence of cow pats.....lolol!

many of uncle iggys coins were in degrading pva sheets or wallets. the rest were in a lovely cabinet he'd made for them....just like the ones you see for sale with slide-out trays and compartments etc.....however his wasnt lined with felt and may well not have been made out of completely coin safe woods.....

also.....he had milled out/counter sunk correct size holes in the trays for the coins....i'm guessing with what are known as 'spade bits' because each milled out ring has a hole in the middle which goes completely through the tray (i cant explain better or provide pics as the cabinet is still at my sisters) which i guess proved handy as that then meant you could poke something through the back of the tray to 'pop' the coin out....something i had to do with a wood kebab/marshmallow stick.

these coins that were still in their countersunk holes were obviously open to the elements completely on one side but also through the smaller hole on the back....meaning many of them have a darker circle on one side....see pics provided. i have of course tried cleaning one to see ifit was indeed dirt or tone and it seems to be dirt....comes off fine.....weird because i would said something like that lived in a smokers home but iggy wasnt a smoker....anyway....

as for pva damage....some more affected than others....for instance see the 1902 crown....ok-ish one side....yellowy stain the other....that is not tone....do i acetone it? others were in sheets that had literally congealed and had to be cut out and are actually 'tacky'. others its not so evident unless the coin is tilted to reveal a greenish tint and often a more visibly green edge. many other pva sheets were still ok luckily.

and hundreds were in a deep pile at the bottom of the cabinet which had been dislodged from their positions when moved/transported from home to home over the years....thank god verdigris had not set into that lot because every one wouldve been totally ruined. in fact only one coin had bad verdi and that was a 1797 penny that i'm now soaking in olive oil for 6 months with an oil change and a light rub every coupla weeks....i've already got several so no biggy on the outcome.

and there are loads of interesting oddities in the collection too....please see the pic of the george halfpenny....its totally smooth one side and completely even.....gotta admit i find it hard to believe someone achieved that at home....its thinner that it should be but i just do not see that someone did that at home though granted the obverse (his ear/hair) is worn....i know loads of knifemakers etc that own industry standard machines, as do i myself, but that nowadays is a do-er....for a few grand you can buy that kit....but back then??????......i've also got a mistrike 2p decimal thats pressed both sides but again is half thickness of norm....and loads of mistrike/test??? 1971 2p's and pennies....see pic.

and some lovely foreign coins of which i had no idea of value until i further researched upon returning home from last weekends visit up north....again see pic...hundreds more to go through yet.

so...feel free to toatally rip my head off and point out what a degenerate i am....and i'd really appreciate your advice and opinions about all the above and grades too if possible please....i'll try to scan some in each day and add them to my thread so please keep an eye on it and return with any input....i really dont want to mess this up.....uncle iggys collection added to my mums/her fathers collection and my collection too....even my grandmother has been sending me modern proof coins this last few years to put away for my two sons.....i've got a really lovely heirloom to build upon here to one day hand down further and would hate to know i'd f***** it all up.

regards and rave on!

Prep

ps....i'm just going to scan them in whatever containers the coins are already in...capsule whatever....and my scanner  only does 600dpi...hope its ok!

 

[bagerap 706]

I can relate to a lot of this. The coin drawers made with a spade bit? I have them. Old silver in awful plastic sheets? Four ring binders full. 

One thing that did work for me, although I've never had the nerve to try it on a viable coin, was to get a cheap ultrasonic jewellery cleaner and load up the active chamber with acetone. It's not good for your health, it's expensive and you could get some friction marks. On the other hand it takes off the green slime perfectly. Just do it in the open air, OK?

Now lets wait for the mob to come, pitchforks in hand, to burn us as heretics,

[ThePrepper 10]

hey man....thanks for being straight forward and honest....this is an option i had thought about and intended to look into....i may be in touch thanks again!

e-z!

p

[PWA 1967 2,256]

As you say in your above post Prep everyone is different and has different opinions weather its grading ,cleaning etc.

Its not a case of me or anyone else being shot down on here more to do with someone else giving an opinion .

In a lot of cases coin knowledge cannot be learned in a few weeks/years and thats why i am always on here as only been collecting about four years myself.

Some on here have been collecting for years .......in some cases lots of years 

One thing i will add is copper pennies are best left alone (although suffer the most problems IMO ) as almost everything you do will show from my tests over a few months a couple of years ago.

I just buy ones i am happy with and prepared to pay more..........although not a lot more 

Be lucky and keep smiling.

Pete.

[IanB 175]

I have used an ultrasonic on individual coins, I make up a jig using a piece of plastic coated wire and gently wrap this around the coin so that it is in minimal contact with the edges. 

I then get the ultrasonic as hot as I can and dangle the coin in the liquid. I do not let the coin come into contact with the machine to prevent any rubbing to the coin.

I have not used acetone just soapy water. It shifts the dirt but will not remove verdigris unless it is a loose spot.

i do not rub the coin with anything I just let the ultrasonic remove loose material. I then soak the coin in acetone and let it air dry.

I have only used this method on circulated coins that have obvious grease and dirt problems.

 

 

[ThePrepper 10]

hi....yup pwa i getcha....are these tests of yours on here?....link if so please? and thanks for your contribution ian!

regards

p

[mrbadexample 1,006]

I had quite a few foreign coins that were going green in an old album. Swabbing with acetone on a cotton bud worked a treat. I'm only really up for intervening when something is actually threatening to damage the coin, in which case I don't see I have much choice. Otherwise, I'll leave it for the next owners.

[Peter 615]

Being a collector for over 40 years just don't buy shite or just throw the feckers.

[ThePrepper 10]

hi...thanks mrbad....so would you yourself clean for instance the 1902 crown with acetone and cotton bud?

and peter....you either didnt bother reading my post or if you did youve disregarded every important point in it. in either case your reply is.....aaaargh.....bite ya lip prep.

out of respect to chris, pwa, mr. cat full o'sixpences and wildcamper and the guys who've taken the time to reply so far i'll bite me lip....

but do me a favour mate....dont 'contribute' on here again please.

thankyou!

p

[Peter 615]

Read your post? It is an epic... and well Bollocks.Go stick one where the sun doesn't shine.TWAT.

[mrbadexample 1,006]

8 hours ago, Peter said:

Being a collector for over 40 years just don't buy shite or just throw the feckers.

I don't think this post is helpful Peter. An inherited collection has not, by definition, been bought. Your suggestion of throwing them away rather than making some attempt to conserve them is a bit silly really. 

[mrbadexample 1,006]

7 hours ago, ThePrepper said:

hi...thanks mrbad....so would you yourself clean for instance the 1902 crown with acetone and cotton bud?

I think from the small central circle on the reverse that this is one that's been in the cabinet? The first question I'd ask is what is it that's on the coin? Acetone is ok for stuff like grease / oil but there's a lot of stuff it just wont touch. Working on the principle that you're unlikely to make it worse and it's not a scarce coin, why not?

It's probably the only one you've posted that I'd touch though.

[DaveG38 420]

Assuming its genuine, I don't know anybody who would even consider scrapping a 1905 halfcrown!! Don't see much wrong with any of the other coins posted. A fair bit of value there, but the yellow crud is obviously something to be carefully removed.

[copper123 1,559]

Coin collectors are by definition coin collectors .

Too my mind it does not matter the coins value either , while a collector with a collection worth £150 is still a collector he should not be derided and abused JUST because his collection is of little interest to a serious collector .

Out of little acorns mighty oaks grow .

PS I hope this arguement stops here now

[ThePrepper 10]

hi....ta jaggy and copper for your words....taken on board and hopefully i can now continue as a degenerate newbie coin collector rather than very experienced en-raged ex-head-doorman.

just got back home to find several parcels containing coin capsules, acetone, flips etc waiting for me with my neighbour so i can now spend the afternoon making the florins and more, new homes....and then i'm going to clean a couple of the less valuable crowns with similar pvc gunkage with acetone and cotton bud keeping particular look out for surface scratching/scuffing (granted i dont have a microscope yet) before proceeding onto the 1902.

have also laid out some of the 1700's half pennies and farthings ready for scanning....

regards!

p

 

[ThePrepper 10]

and just wanted to say thanks to pwa for the phone chats....much appreciated dude....top bloke!!!

p

[copper123 1,559]

looking forward to the 1700s farthings and halfpennies .

While i would love to give advice on the coins you have scaned as they are mostly silver i feel i should pass it on  to someone else as this really is not my field .

Ps if you ever want to scrap the 1905 halfcrown , it will find a happy new home at my adress .

[ThePrepper 10]

lol copper....apparently thats all its worth....i would post it to you but its not worth postage fee....i've got a drain right here next to my workshop, its going down there with the other worthless thousands of shite feckers that i didnt buy....

got tons to sort out but heres a few (i've more nicer examples already in my own collection)....i've tweaked contrast a bit because everythings so dull due to pvc tackiness overall...and the  tweaking has also shown off the resulting tinges due to pvc....i'm hating it but after chatting to pwa who further strengthened and added to what i already knew about copper/bronze (i collected penny/hp before getting this inherited lot) i'm going to leave them all alone for now and just get on with the silver which like yourself is not my strongest area....need to learn learn learn....these are hardly mint but nice and clear enough on the whole....and the victoria to date get better and better as is usual...

ok....now going to play with groats and florins then on with cleaning the crowns...

be well!

p

 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by ThePrepper

[copper123 1,559]

nothing really exciteing here, love the william iii halfpenny obv .

George III halfpennies are non regal - Is one dated 1776?

Soho stuff is very common  1722 halfpennies are scarcer

[Michael-Roo 783]

Could you scan the reverse of the William III 1/2d please Prep?

It's always worth checking them for minor varieties.

Ta.

[Stuntman 264]

Some interesting stuff there already, and Iggy sounds quite the character.  It's a pity that the coins probably haven't been stored particularly well for a good while.  The misstrikes are interesting, and I think the Godless florin is in perfectly decent nick.

.
I think VickySilver is probably the most knowledgeable here with regard to conserving/improving the silver coins and hopefully he'll be along sometime to contribute- otherwise it might be worth sending a gentle PM in his direction asking for advice?  

FWIW I don't see any harm in starting with an olive oil soak for the 1920-1946 silver coins, leaving them in for a week or so and then gently poking off any more gunk with a water softened cocktail stick before a final rinse in de-ionised water and then careful drying (Vicky would say high thread count cotton towel I think).  Start on the worst ones first and see how much improvement there is.

For the pre 1920 silver I'm not sure if the olive oil soak is recommended.  The one time I tried it, it improved the coin a bit but not as much as I was hoping. 

Keep posting 

[ThePrepper 10]

hi....no 1776....interested why youve asked though as theres no 1776 in the coin yearbook....? one of the pictured above is 1722.

two at 1775....the 5's look different on each....?.....and in the 1773 it looks like the 3 is overstamped or stamped over?....i can only scan at 600dpi sorry...

the william iii reverse is not brilliant i'm afraid....but what a great nose he has!!! lol

doubleflorins....looks like the bottom-left one has been treated in some way to me....dipped? polished? and top right suffering from pvc similar to the 1902 crown....yucky!

regards!

p

Edited May 8, 2017 by ThePrepper

[Michael-Roo 783]

 

Non-regal contemporary counterfeits are known with the date 1776, which is why Coppers asked. 

Your 1773 looks like 3 over 7. There's a 1773 3 over 7 in the Nicholson collection of halfpennies although yours doesn't die match that one.

Thanks for scanning the William III. Standard issue I'm afraid, but nice to have all the same.

[ThePrepper 10]

hey stuntman....thankyou for that mate, much appreciated....i've heard of vickysilver i believe....

regards!

prep

[copper123 1,559]

1697 by the way