Farthing flans

[Guest DAS]

Another one for you Chris

Why did the mint sometimes clip the flans of farthings (around the time of William and Mary)?

[Chris Perkins 228]

Not sure about that DAS, I think i've heard about it. Was it simply because the coins were not the correct weight. I'm sure the flan manufacturing process was not as uniform as it is today.

Not sure.

Sylvester, any ideas?

Chris

www.predecimal.com

[Sylvester 15]

I'm sure the flan manufacturing process was not as uniform as it is today.

Not sure.

Sylvester, any ideas?

Chris

www.predecimal.com

Regarding the flan manufacturing in a word Chris, no. No it wasn't as uniform as it is today, if you look at the early stuff you'll notice that they are not totally round, or to put it another way the diameter around the coin is not consistent the whole way around.

Try stacking a few lower grade half crowns on top of each other, or better yet some of the maundy stuff as it's smaller, and i should imagine rounding the smaller coins would be harder. You'll notice that a pile of early milled coins never look as good stacked as a pile of late milled coins, which are exactly the same size all way around, and about as round as round gets, (unless it's a fifty pence of course!) They also look better stacked because of the higher rims and lower relief...

Therefore i suppose the might clip them for that reason...if they were overweight...

Only other reason i could think of was to check the consistency of tin/copper purity, but they could do this by using the leftovers after they cut the blanks out of a rolled sheet.

Sylvester.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Apparently some blanks in the 1670's (and possibly at other times?) were imported from Sweden. So perhaps they wanted to make sure it was proper copper and that the Swedes were not doing the dodgy.

This would perhaps also apply to any outsourced blanks. (nothing against the Swedes!)

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

Apparently some blanks in the 1670's (and possibly at other times?) were imported from Sweden. So perhaps they wanted to make sure it was proper copper and that the Swedes were not doing the dodgy.

This would perhaps also apply to any outsourced blanks. (nothing against the Swedes!)

Chris

It could indeed be that. It could also be a method for the mint to do random quality checks to make sure it's employees weren't making the coins substandard by nicking off with *surplus* metal...that should have been in the coins.

[ASIDE]...Kinda like the old hammered silver coins, officials would haul a few out of circulation and test them for weight and finess, to make sure that the moneyer wasn't making a sneaky profit by producing substandard coins...

[bACK TO FARTHINGS]...If you don't think that's plausible then, i'm sure i read somewhere about all the underhand things that went off later in W3's reign with the production of copper at the provincial mints.

Many coins were often cast rather than minted as it saved money!

And there were many foreigners employed that could not even spell the kings name, hence all those wonderful spelling mistakes of William, and of course the lack of design and detail on these coins and inferior workmanship.

Sylvester.

[Guest DAS]

What about a genuine minting error? Minting processes would presumably be more hit and miss ( no pun intended) in the 17th C.

I saw this article about contemory US mint errors and it decribed how when the press does not advance the metal strip correctly the next cutting stoke may slice the edge off a previously punched out coin .... could happen I suppose, url for article below http://www.ecoinprices.com/us-mint-error-coins.htm

.....I'll stop being boring now. Thanks for all your comments on this topic. DAS

[Chris Perkins 228]

I don't know if you can compare the very fast minting process nowadays with the minting process of those early milled coins but I imagine it would be a possibility.

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

I don't know if you can compare the very fast minting process nowadays with the minting process of those early milled coins but I imagine it would be a possibility.

Chris

For one minting coins in such high relief nowdays at the speeds that are used in modern methods, i'd hate to see what'd happen to the die after a couple thousand...

Minting was done by hand presses from 1663-1815 was it not? Then from 1816 steam powered machines took over...

When i say hand operated presses, i do not mean hammered coins...

Sylvester.

[Chris Perkins 228]

The first Steam presses were used by Boulton in 1797 for the Cartwheels. I do believe horse power was used previously.

Chris

[Sylvester 15]

The first Steam presses were used by Boulton in 1797 for the Cartwheels. I do believe horse power was used previously.

Chris

Chris you're right, i forgot about the cartwheel stuff...steam presses indeed for these.

Not sure about what was used prior to this, horses are a very likely possibility.

Sylvester.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Yes horses were somehow harnessed on some kind of turnstyle I believe for the Briot and other 'French' very early milled coinages.

Chris