Peering into the darkness with R Ingram Coins lol

[Ukstu 445]

I can't see how they sell much at all. They have some interesting descriptions of stock but with no pictures i won't touch any of it. If your too lazy to take and upload pictures your not getting my money. 

[secret santa 2,305]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

They haven't refunded the cost of tracked delivery postage

Seriously outrageous.

[1949threepence 3,367]

4 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Seriously outrageous.

Hmmm, well it's obviously not a great deal. But don't forget I bought a mis-attributed item in good faith, and due to their error, I'm out of pocket, albeit by a very minor sum.

After all, which one of us would walk into the street and just drop £6.50 down the drain. It could preferably have gone to charity.   

[secret santa 2,305]

I wasn't being sarcastic.

[1949threepence 3,367]

1 hour ago, Ukstu said:

I can't see how they sell much at all. They have some interesting descriptions of stock but with no pictures i won't touch any of it. If your too lazy to take and upload pictures your not getting my money. 

As I said earlier it's definitely the last time I buy anything off them.   

[Martinminerva 324]

On 13 March 2020 at 5:59 PM, Martinminerva said:

Bet they don't refund your postage expenses in sending back signed for or special....

 let us know if they do.

   9 hours ago,  1949threepence said: 

They haven't refunded the cost of tracked delivery postage

Seriously outrageous.

 

 

I rest my case. This is absolutely unacceptable (and, I am led to believe, illegal under the distance selling regulations and sale of goods acts) and I really don't think you should even begin to accept a £6.50 loss for their mistake/incompetence/deliberacy. This is clearly their "policy", and as I said in my earlier post, they are clearly doing this so as not to lose money themselves but let customers take the hit. If every mistake was actually paid for by them, then they might actually sharpen their act up, but, no, they don't give a sh-one-t, and until we customers act, it'll go on.

i would politely suggest the following actions:

You get back in touch with them and demand your £6.50, referencing distance selling regulations.

As Craigy is happy, contact Chris P to see if he is too, and then refer Ingrams to this site/thread.

We on the forum boycott them and further spread the news of their appalling service among the coin fraternity.

 

Do members agree, or am I being the unreasonable one??!

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Martinminerva
Spelling mistake.

[Martinminerva 324]

On 16 March 2020 at 9:56 PM, Sword said:

I imagine they will just refund the amount you asked for. It's not good business to lose a customer over £15.60

Ha! You've clearly not dealt with them, then; or at least you haven't had cause to feel diddled by them.

[1949threepence 3,367]

So anyway, I've messaged Chris and will await what he says. Obviously he has the reputation of the forum to consider and I don't want to step on anybody's toes by jumping the gun on this one. 

[Peckris 2 2,119]

1 hour ago, 1949threepence said:

So anyway, I've messaged Chris and will await what he says. Obviously he has the reputation of the forum to consider and I don't want to step on anybody's toes by jumping the gun on this one. 

You'll be waiting a long long time.

[Peckris 2 2,119]

11 hours ago, Ukstu said:

I can't see how they sell much at all. They have some interesting descriptions of stock but with no pictures i won't touch any of it. If your too lazy to take and upload pictures your not getting my money. 

Glenn Ogden (Devon) is the same - no pictures. The difference being that he is an honest broker. Even so, he'd do so much better if he'd have pictures.

[1949threepence 3,367]

47 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

You'll be waiting a long long time.

Possibly, possibly not, but the time factor is irrelevant either way. The thread will still be around, as will the dealers concerned.

There's no desperate urgency.

 

[1949threepence 3,367]

15 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

   9 hours ago,  1949threepence said: 

They haven't refunded the cost of tracked delivery postage

Seriously outrageous.

 

 

I rest my case. This is absolutely unacceptable (and, I am led to believe, illegal under the distance selling regulations and sale of goods acts) and I really don't think you should even begin to accept a £6.50 loss for their mistake/incompetence/deliberacy. This is clearly their "policy", and as I said in my earlier post, they are clearly doing this so as not to lose money themselves but let customers take the hit. If every mistake was actually paid for by them, then they might actually sharpen their act up, but, no, they don't give a sh-one-t, and until we customers act, it'll go on.

i would politely suggest the following actions:

You get back in touch with them and demand your £6.50, referencing distance selling regulations.

As Craigy is happy, contact Chris P to see if he is too, and then refer Ingrams to this site/thread.

We on the forum boycott them and further spread the news of their appalling service among the coin fraternity.

 

Do members agree, or am I being the unreasonable one??!

 

Originally I wasn't going to pursue this, but on further reflection I think I will. If I hadn't mentioned the cost in my e mail to them, then I wouldn't. But having done so, I find the fact that it's been totally ignored as of zero importance, deeply irritating. It's definitely not the way I would treat others. 

So yes, a further e mail on that topic will be coming their way soon. I'm no barrack room lawyer, so I won't be mentioning the legislation you refer to, but they'll get the message - trust me on that. 

Oh, and no, you're not being unreasonable. 

   

[jelida 1,312]

There’s always the Small Claims Court, which would almost certainly find in your favour, if they don’t have a lower limit for claims;  might be worth a mention.

I’m not entirely enthused by the idea of the likes of this duo stalking the forum; I don’t think a small pool of negativity here will alter their business practice, we are not the sort of customers they rely on; but a legal assertion of customer rights might.

A copy of their massive catalogue came with my Coin News again this week. The Pembroke penny caught my eye at a bit over a grand. “How likely is that?” I thought. So I had a look at the grainy image. How could any-one be certain of the mint of this multiply and poorly struck coin? And I certainly can’t tie in the letters I think I can see. If you are going to pick a mint, pick a rare one. I wouldn’t have much hope for the Henry III Wilton penny at £50 either, no photo there.

Jerry

[Diaconis 707]

Where's Doctor Potter when you need him? He'd know how to handle such types...

[Martinminerva 324]

Very sensible words, Jerry and Mike. I agree wholeheartedly with all of what both of you say. You're right actually - why should we share all our collective expertise with that pair who would no doubt take it and use (and mis-use !) it entirely for their advantage. We are better off without them. I just implore fellow members on the forum to really think carefully about ever giving them custom.  We, on the forum, are collectively so much better (and more knowledgeable) than those two "dealers"...

Yes, Mike, contact them and request the return of the postage cost to you. I have done some legal research and can give you this if it helps: Distance selling regulations and Sale of Goods acts were actually replaced in 2014 and 2015 respectively, with what is now known as Consumer Contracts Regulations and the Consumer Rights Act respectively. Both would seem to apply in your case.

Courtesy of the Which website, this is the clause about goods that are faulty or not as described:

If you receive faulty goods and wish to return them, the Regulations are in addition to your other legal rights.

So, if your goods are faulty and don’t do what they're supposed to, or don’t match the description given, you have the same consumer rights under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaces the Sale of Goods Act from 1 October 2015) as you have when buying in store.

Any terms and conditions that say you must cover the cost of returning an item wouldn’t apply where the goods being returned are faulty.

It is this last paragraph in particular that is relevant, but feel free to quote the whole lot at them ! I may not be legally trained, but equally I am no barrack room lawyer - just someone who wants to stand up for what is right and what are our rights, and will take time to gain that knowledge. In fact, are any forum members in the legal profession and can confirm the above? I bet some of us are.

Please do let us know how you get on!

[Peckris 2 2,119]

10 hours ago, Diaconis said:

Where's Doctor Potter when you need him? He'd know how to handle such types...

Win some Welshmen? I'll pass... 😄

[Diaconis 707]

10 hours ago, Peckris 2 said:

Win some Welshmen? I'll pass... 😄

The Welsh ladies are OK though. I used to go out with a Welsh girl who had 36DDs. It was a ridiculously long name.

[VickySilver 826]

Somehow you managed....

[1949threepence 3,367]

On 3/21/2020 at 1:33 PM, Martinminerva said:

Very sensible words, Jerry and Mike. I agree wholeheartedly with all of what both of you say. You're right actually - why should we share all our collective expertise with that pair who would no doubt take it and use (and mis-use !) it entirely for their advantage. We are better off without them. I just implore fellow members on the forum to really think carefully about ever giving them custom.  We, on the forum, are collectively so much better (and more knowledgeable) than those two "dealers"...

Yes, Mike, contact them and request the return of the postage cost to you. I have done some legal research and can give you this if it helps: Distance selling regulations and Sale of Goods acts were actually replaced in 2014 and 2015 respectively, with what is now known as Consumer Contracts Regulations and the Consumer Rights Act respectively. Both would seem to apply in your case.

Courtesy of the Which website, this is the clause about goods that are faulty or not as described:

If you receive faulty goods and wish to return them, the Regulations are in addition to your other legal rights.

So, if your goods are faulty and don’t do what they're supposed to, or don’t match the description given, you have the same consumer rights under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaces the Sale of Goods Act from 1 October 2015) as you have when buying in store.

Any terms and conditions that say you must cover the cost of returning an item wouldn’t apply where the goods being returned are faulty.

It is this last paragraph in particular that is relevant, but feel free to quote the whole lot at them ! I may not be legally trained, but equally I am no barrack room lawyer - just someone who wants to stand up for what is right and what are our rights, and will take time to gain that knowledge. In fact, are any forum members in the legal profession and can confirm the above? I bet some of us are.

Please do let us know how you get on!

Now refunded.

[Martinminerva 324]

Brilliant! And so they should.

But, best not to use them again!😄😄

[1949threepence 3,367]

17 minutes ago, Martinminerva said:

Brilliant! And so they should.

But, best not to use them again!😄😄

They can't be trusted to get it right, unfortunately.

[Sword 1,447]

On 3/20/2020 at 7:54 PM, Martinminerva said:

Ha! You've clearly not dealt with them, then; or at least you haven't had cause to feel diddled by them.

For me buying something for my hobby is a treat. Hence, I only want to buy from dealers able to provide good photos and are not likely to give me the stress and hassle of returning afterwards. (I just hate returning things - anything!)

Edited March 23, 2020 by Sword

[secret santa 2,305]

Great news - I've just had this email from the Ingrams

"We are still operating, and as long as health and circumstances permit, we will carry on doing so."

[Diaconis 707]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Great news - I've just had this email from the Ingrams

"We are still operating, and as long as health and circumstances permit, we will carry on doing so."

Side business?

[RIC 0]

Hi all,

Our attention has been brought to this thread and we wanted to say hello and make a response.

Firstly we hope you are safe & well in very challenging times, looking on the positive side, possibly a good chance to enjoy a bit more time on the great hobby that is numismatics.

We acknowledge the point about the pictures, this is something which we are looking to improve and have been liaising with a photographer about. We plan to purchase a new camera and have a new lighting set up as well – possibly a mini studio or a ring light? Would welcome any opinions on this as well as what might be a good camera to get specifically for photographing coins.

Whilst both of us are experienced numismatists we do sometimes make mistakes. Invariably when a mistake is made one or other of us is very frustrated with ourselves! We try our best and over the years we are proud to have helped many collectors enhance their collections, but yes we do sometimes make errors and we are sorry for this.

Specifically with regards the 1882 Penny we purchased this from a well-known source who identified it as F115. Our error was in trusting this and not being thorough enough in checking this. Unfortunately our photos were not clear enough (Again would appreciate any comments on photographing darker slabbed coins, have always found it a bit tricky).

We are always happy to receive an email or a phone call regarding any aspect of coins so please do feel free to get in touch. Thanks for reading this & stay safe.

Rendel & Michael.