Help Identification 1873 Half Penny

[zookeeperz 470]

Doesn't matter how many times I look at the pictures in freemans book I can't tell which Die pairing is on this 1873 half penny. Things that are confusing are the right hand ribbon tie is much thinner at the top where it joins the knot. The nose is pointy and demure . The reverse looks like rev G but has the same characteristics as rev D penny has with curved exergue So I am lost.

Would the experts please chime in and ID this coin die pairing please 

 

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

I'll go with 7+G (but don't include myself in the "experts")

 

[Paddy 1,829]

We all know I am no expert at varieties, but for practice I tried using the book to judge. I think I go for the 7+G too - I think I can see the small door on the light house at the base, and I don't see the incuse hemline in the drapery.

The book is very frustrating - the practice of writing "Similar to Reverse X but..." leaves one bouncing back and forth trying to work out which features have carried forward. Long overdue for someone to do a website like the excellent Penny and Farthing ones already out there.

 

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

There is also a mysterious 6+J variety for 1873, but my eyes were too tired to go hunting about for that one to compare!

[Rob 3,185]

  On 4/8/2018 at 8:36 AM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

There is also a mysterious 6+J variety for 1873, but my eyes were too tired to go hunting about for that one to compare!

Is that Peck's 6+J i.e. Freeman's 7+I?

[zookeeperz 470]

  On 4/8/2018 at 4:18 PM, Rob said:

Is that Peck's 6+J i.e. Freeman's 7+I?

I have no idea the label as always only gives the Spink reference number. I bought it from auction thinking it might be different to the book. As I couldn't make out what one it was. I'll get a better picture I hope when it arrives. Picked this up as well but I doubt you can date it lol  it's a farthing not seen a George IV before

 

Edited April 8, 2018 by zookeeperz

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

  On 4/8/2018 at 4:18 PM, Rob said:

Is that Peck's 6+J i.e. Freeman's 7+I?

I'm ashamed to say I don't have a copy of Peck yet, so I'm basing my comment on Freeman showing options of 7+G and 7+I and am too "green" to know if it's the same thing.

 

[Paddy 1,829]

  On 4/8/2018 at 9:06 PM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

I'm ashamed to say I don't have a copy of Peck yet, so I'm basing my comment on Freeman showing options of 7+G and 7+I and am too "green" to know if it's the same thing.

 

The reprint of Freeman also lists an 1873 8+I and an 8 and Draycott C# in the Appendix IV extras...

 

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

  On 4/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Paddy said:

The reprint of Freeman also lists an 1873 8+I and an 8 and Draycott C# in the Appendix IV extras...

 

I looked but it was so late I couldn't see for looking - although I did spend the whole day looking through the rest of my pennies for anything else which might fund my Vicky habit.

 

@Paddy I need to head to Devon soon, to:

a) buy you a beer

2)rummage your scrap pennies

iii) buy some of your spares

 

[Paddy 1,829]

  On 4/8/2018 at 9:16 PM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

I looked but it was so late I couldn't see for looking - although I did spend the whole day looking through the rest of my pennies for anything else which might fund my Vicky habit.

 

@Paddy I need to head to Devon soon, to:

a) buy you a beer

2)rummage your scrap pennies

iii) buy some of your spares

 

You will be very welcome! PM me when you think you have a day and we can sort out the details.

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

  On 4/8/2018 at 8:06 AM, Paddy said:

We all know I am no expert at varieties, but for practice I tried using the book to judge. I think I go for the 7+G too - I think I can see the small door on the light house at the base, and I don't see the incuse hemline in the drapery.

@zookeeperz This is exactly what I thought when I checked Freeman.

[zookeeperz 470]

  On 4/8/2018 at 9:21 PM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

@zookeeperz This is exactly what I thought when I checked Freeman.

I did notice that the legend on the reverse is misaligned in that HALF is further from the border than the letters in PENNY and I might be way off base but in my memory it rang a bell that it was a identifying factor of a rare variety type perhaps Draycott C# ? . Unfortunately it is only mentioned as a footnote in freeman's appendix list in the new book. As I said in the description there are somethings that look different to the images in the book the eye is closer to the bridge than any of the versions it should be and the nose itself is pixie like and has a narrow sharp pointy look to it. Also the ribbon tie on the right is half the width of the tie on the left where it joins the knot. The exergue line curves up at the left end like it does on the rev D penny. Neither G or I have this feature they are both straight. But as we have said time and time again a picture is worth a thousand words only if you have the item from the picture in your hand  

 

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

I don't think the exergue line curves up at the left, it looks more like it droops in the midlle - but this would appear to be because of the odd placement of the retaining tabs from the slab. (optically odd for those of us with OCD)

[Rob 3,185]

Freeman describes the second (rarer) reverse as having misaligned St. Andrew's cross arms on the shield relative to each other, widely spaced double raised lines and a slightly recessed shield rim. It is considerably rarer than a 7+G combination. I haven't found a mint state piece yet to tick the reverse I box.

 

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

@Rob have you got an example image - it might prove useful as someone might stumble accross one.

[Rob 3,185]

  On 4/8/2018 at 11:16 PM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

@Rob have you got an example image - it might prove useful as someone might stumble accross one.

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=146&searchlot=2526&searchtype=2

An example of both types in this lot

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

Awesome, that should keep all the relevent 1873 info in one thread for future reference

 

[zookeeperz 470]

I have looked again at this 1873 half penny and I am now convinced it is not reverse G and is the rarer type reverse I  Incuse hemline and folds over the shield On this pic for identification purpose you can see the incuse lines and the cross lines are crude and misaligned. What do you say guru's?

 

[zookeeperz 470]

[zookeeperz 470]

[zookeeperz 470]

is it my eyes or am I looking at an overdate?

 

[Unwilling Numismatist 505]

Dude.

#VisionExpress.

Discount vouchers available on receipt of vicky silvers.