unidentified coin No date britanniar

[Guest jamlyn]

How on earth do I describe this one....

reverse - Britanniar: REX FID: DEF: No Date Britanniar facing right

No lighthouse on bottom left

Exergue -

An obverse Legend - illegible but is around the entire coin.

looks like a few symbols in there too ie: similar to a small O with a straight line sitting on the top

uneven Patina

The Pattern (design) itself is separate from the legend and is separated with a similar rim pattern (like minutes on a clock - but all even)

The actual design I can only describe as "if you laid a four leave clover on a surface USE THE SURFACE EDGE then place a square off centre over the clover (having the corners in the centre of the clover leaves).

Then within this square next to each corner is another pattern: obviously repeated four times evenly. too hard to describe this one but trying:

short stumpy arrow pointing downward toward a T like shape with a fat bottom. Under the T's left and right side is a fatish 'u' but the sides of the 'u' shape are not high...it is wider than taller...

OK PEOPLE see if you can help here.... Thanks anyway...

[Chris Perkins 228]

Probably be a million times more helpful if you could just mention the diameter in mm, and the metal type!

[rarecoin 0]

I have tried to attach a canned photo but with no success I can however email it via normal email. I have since learned that the pattern on the front is the fluer de lis repeated four times within the square set in each corner.

You may contact me on jim.lynne@bigpond.com if you would like to view.

jamlyn

[Chris Perkins 228]

Please attach jpg picture format here. I've removed the 2nd topic on the same subject.

[rarecoin 0]

I tried before Chris but cant do it..... sorry ... thats why i tried a word version. I'm obviously doing something wrong ad I'm a brunette!

[Master Jmd 89]

I tried before Chris but cant do it..... sorry ... thats why i tried a word version. I'm obviously doing something wrong ad I'm a brunette!

Go to where ever the picture is located on your computer, right click on the image and click 'edit' (preferably with Microsoft Paint). Then click 'File', 'Save As', and save it as a 'Jpg' image.

You could alternatively go to a website such as photobucket.com, upload the picture there and give us a link to it.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Here is the picture that Lynne emailed me.

The Britanniar side is clearly that of a farthing, either George IV, or William IV (because of the REX title). The other side looks like a French 16th Century (or earlier) jeton to me, certainly it does not belong with the Britanniar side, so I would suspect this coin is the result of someone messing around during metal work! The farthing was probably hollowed out, and the jeton inserted into the hole.

[mint_mark 9]

Here is the picture that Lynne emailed me.

The Britanniar side is clearly that of a farthing, either George IV, or William IV (because of the REX title).

Do we know how large it is? Comparing with some books, I think it looks more like the reverse of a third farthing (looking at the position of the colon compared to Britannia's helmet)... which would make the jeton pretty small.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Yes, you're right! How big is it in mm?

Clearly can't be an original fractional farthing/french medieval mule though can it.

[rarecoin 0]

Just me Guys .... this coin is an original it was found in the UK and been handed down. The British musuem had not seen one in the year 1966 it has been locked aways since. I will try and find out the size for you.

lynne. to our knowledge it has not been tampered with .. we atleast not in our life time.

[Master Jmd 89]

It is definately a Third Farthing due to the uneven line under britannia...

Edited April 18, 2005 by Master Jmd

[rarecoin 0]

Gentleman, I claim to know NOTHING about coins... however reading the comment that this is definately a 3rd farthing ... I searched your sites and had a look at a third farthing .. and yes maybe there are different ones but the one I saw on the back reads britanniar "REG :" not "REX" and ours doesnt appear to have a stop after the word REX. The measurement probably wont be supplied for a while ... sorry. Has anyone got any idea about the legend ???? I really dont mean to waste anyones time but by golly this is interesting to me... 'Nothing like a challenge". Thanks.

[Chris Perkins 228]

So lets get this straight, the image above is a picture of the 2 different sides of the same coin? That is absolutely impossible.

[rarecoin 0]

I'm sorry Chris, BUT YES IT IS ... absolutely, positively undeniably the same coin....... I know where your coming from but this was scanned by a family member. Both sides of this coin as illustrated are the one coin. The only thing I can say is that apart from the British musuem 'not having seen anything like it before (that was 1966)and wanting it to be donated! a reputable firm of 'antique' valuers wanted to send it back to the UK for valuation but our family member would not part with it. maybe this will give you something to go on. I give you my word it is the one coin. I know this probably doesnt mean much but I'm genuine.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Well i'd like to see it to examine it. As far as I'm concerned there is no way a medieval looking jeton could end up on the front of a fractional farthing. They don't even look like the same metal. Where is the coin located?

[rarecoin 0]

chris, I don't know what to say .... The coin is in Australia 'safe deposit box to be exact ... We will get the diameter for you as soon as possible.

Help me here ... what does all this mean! Frustrating I know but how would you get to see it!

[Chris Perkins 228]

Well, I see no reason to not still believe my first 'diagnosis' i.e. that it's a third farthing which has been hollowed, retaining a rim and that somehow 2 coins have been joined together. I've seen lots of coins joined that way, and it done properly it can be very difficult to detect. Stranger things have happened and I suppose it is possible that a mint worker was mucking around with some other 'foreign' die and created what you have, but the former is far more likely.

If you can access it, I suppose you wouldn't really want to send it in the post. So, I suspect there is little chance I will be able to see it. In the unlikely event that it is a real single coin with a third farthing reverse and a strange 2nd reverse then it will be of interest, and the value would depend on who was willing to pay the most....Which might not be as much as you think.

[rarecoin 0]

Thank you sincerely Chris, to tell you the truth we had no preconceived ideas on worth... just interest ' nothing like a challenge'. the only reason its in a safe deposit box is so that it doesn't get lost or stolen. I will keep you informed of size etc when I can. When someone in the family goes to the UK we might have it viewed again at the museum or would you recommend another source of identifying it?? Plus again the LEGEND do you know what it says??? or what it is supposed to say? Is there a name for this type of pattern? Nosy Arnt I... but that's how you learn ...

[Chris Perkins 228]

The latin legend on the Britannia side is perfectly normal, the reason you have seen them with REG is because they also exist with REG(INA), due to the fact that not only Kings (ie REX) appeared on fractional farthings.

The Latin legend says: Britain: King, Defender of the Faith.

No idea about the weird lombardic looking side. It's not really a great picture.

There are plenty of so called Coin Dealers in the UK, that really don't seem to have a grasp of coins at all. You'll find them mostly in shops that also sell antiques and other collectables. The chances are, these people will be of little use. You could send it to the Royal Mint in Wales, and you will get it back, but expect it to take up to a year!

I have a very knowledgable friend in Kent, and when in the UK I'm generally in Kent too. British Musuem would be fine I suspect, but you'd need to make sure you saw the specialist. Post in here when there is a chance it will get to England, I'd like to see it, just so I can say 'I told you so' and then gloat around the place!

[jimmy_goodfella 0]

might be worth seeing a photo of the rim as well, it might bring up some clues

[jimmy_goodfella 0]

what i cant understand about that coin is the nicks on the second reverse are not showing up in the britannia reverse.

looking at the pictures they rim nicks surely go through to the britannia side but the photos dont show this ????

im gonna go with this aint the same coin at all in the 2 photos.

[Sylvester 15]

Aye but Jimmy think on if the top of picture two is level with the top of picture one then there might be indents on the farthing side too, but that bit's cut off from the pictures.

[jimmy_goodfella 0]

heya sylvester been a while since i seen ya about.funny how wherever ya go the same peopel are there .i think ive talked to or dealt with half the people on here:).

yes that picture cuts off the top where the main nick is. i think if that could be shown then at least we would know one way or the other it this is the same coin.

im suspicious of the fact its been photographed like this in the first place though.

does anyone have dimensions for each of the coins?

then we could assertain if they would fit together neatly with any clipping

[Master Jmd 89]

Aye but Jimmy think on if the top of picture two is level with the top of picture one then there might be indents on the farthing side too, but that bit's cut off from the pictures.

I noticed this too...not very convincing to me at the moment...

[Sylvester 15]

Okay chaps pull to pieces my splendid theory!

Spent half an hour working on that one... wuhaha

Hey Jimmy long time no see to! Yeah people do have a knack of following me around, i think i provide interesting entertainment for many, you just know i'm gonna put my foot in my mouth sooner or later. They're just taking bets on when!