thoughts on ebay sale

[craigy]

this has been posted in other places,   went for nearly £400 om the bay, 

 

looks odd to me, 

[jelida]

Looks like it’s based on this type of portrait penny of John, but different moneyer and mint.

https://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/collections/coinsandmedals/78186

But it looks a ‘wrong un‘ to me. I’ll be interested in what others think; if genuine it would have been grossly undervalued.

Jerry

[Matteo95]

Honestly, I wouldn't buy it .. 

It reminds me a series of fake Italian coins 

[Coys55]

Well it's similar to Mass 116, a class 1a5 which is the only example in Mass with the reverse spelling OSBEI.ON.EXECES (Osbei instead of Osber).

It doesn't look to be the same die pairing to me though and I'm not convinced it's right.

[Ukstu]

I figured it was okay as the pictures where not the best. My only concern at the time was its grade. It looks hardly worn. I'd have to see another example to condemn it though and compare it properly. I've not looked in Mass though yet. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Ukstu

[Ukstu]

10 hours ago, Coys55 said:

Well it's similar to Mass 116, a class 1a5 which is the only example in Mass with the reverse spelling OSBEI.ON.EXECES (Osbei instead of Osber).

It doesn't look to be the same die pairing to me though and I'm not convinced it's right.

See what you mean. The mass coin is different and isn't a match. I actually bid on it but it went above my budget. If its a fake its a worrying development. 

Why pick an obscurely spelled moneyer and mint if you were going to fake a coin. You would also need a good example coin to make a copy and the Osbei in Mass is not clearer enough to do that and I've not seen any others like it elsewhere either.

The seller was selling other coins also none of which gave me any red flags , his feed back seems okay also especially in regards to coins. Nothing really jumps out about him. 

Its rare to see a 1a5 in such a grade that much i agree. Thats all i felt uneasy about really when i saw it. 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Ukstu

[Ukstu]

For comparison. Found this on dix noonan website.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3272&lot=445

Edited September 15, 2020 by Ukstu

[Coys55]

9 hours ago, Ukstu said:

For comparison. Found this on dix noonan website.

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3272&lot=445

Ooh, that's nice, although I'm not sure what DNW are talking about with the Mass number of the obverse or class; the only OSBEI in Mass is 116 and it's a 1a5, unless it's a mule and/or Mass was wrong on the 1a5.

Whatever, I sttill think that there are a number of differences with the eBay example: e.g. on the obverse the hand on the septre looks a bit weird (long fingers) as does the R of REX and the cross on the crown looks different. There are also what look like a couple of die flaws at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock and another above (his) left eye. Could all that be down to die wear? Or a poor photo? I don't know.

[Ukstu]

Agree about the dix noonan description that's mess. Not sure who classified that or inputted that information. 

I have spoken with our mutual friend and he doesn't like it . So it's fair to say its definitely moody. I did notice some of the differences you've pointed out but not all of them. 

I definitely dodged a bullet with it and its opened my eyes for sure. 

Stu.

 

 

 

[Ukstu]

It's resurfaced. Better pictures. Definitely not right. 

https://www.chilterncoins.co.uk/henry-ii-coins.html

 

[Peckris 2]

On 9/14/2020 at 9:59 AM, jelida said:

Looks like it’s based on this type of portrait penny of John, but different moneyer and mint.

https://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/collections/coinsandmedals/78186

But it looks a ‘wrong un‘ to me. I’ll be interested in what others think; if genuine it would have been grossly undervalued.

Jerry

It looks like a repro to me. That's based on nothing more than 'intuitive feel' but also I've seen plenty of repros that look just like that. And it's a perfect centred strike, and UNC - just seems wrong.

[Coys55]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ANGLO-SAXON-JOHN-LACKLAND-1199-1216-Silver-Penny-Short-Cross-Type/184455456382?hash=item2af266e67e%3Ag%3AfD8AAOSwO7NfZx1P&LH_Auction=1

😯