1903 'open 3' penny and 1903 florin

[blakeyboy 1,811]

Is it just me, or are the '3's'  in the 1903 open 3 penny and the 1903 florin very similar?

If any member has an example of both, it may be worth measuring the size of the '3', 

and if they are the same size, it's not beyond imagination that the open 3 penny occurred because someone picked up the florin punch by mistake?

 

If this has been discussed before, apologies- this idea just occurred to me, and I can't find it in a search of the site.....

[jelida 1,374]

That is very interesting, the ‘open 3’ punch must have come from somewhere in the mint’s stock, and it looks like they were using that font  on the florin at least, even if not the same size. As you say, they need measuring. And possibly a look at Krause, as the mint may well have used that font for foreign coins they struck.

Jerry

[blakeyboy 1,811]

1 hour ago, jelida said:

That is very interesting, the ‘open 3’ punch must have come from somewhere in the mint’s stock, and it looks like they were using that font  on the florin at least, even if not the same size. As you say, they need measuring. And possibly a look at Krause, as the mint may well have used that font for foreign coins they struck.

Jerry

Oh yes- foreign stuff...forgot about that.

It does seem odd that this style of 3 pops up on two coins at once....

[secret santa 2,384]

Any pictures of a 1903 florin anyone ?

[Nick 329]

5 minutes ago, secret santa said:

Any pictures of a 1903 florin anyone ?

 

[Nick 329]

... and a closer view of the date.

 

[jelida 1,374]

Not an exact match I would say, though similar. We need photos of the two to the same magnification. Is there a list anywhere of the RM’s  overseas production during 1902/3? Anyone with a copy of Krause and time on their hands?

Jerry

[PWA 1967 2,246]

Its a different style IMO ,its fatter and the ends not the same.

[blakeyboy 1,811]

Yes, maybe, depending on wear  ( any open 3 pennies around in that condition? ) but I do think it's a strange coincidence - that 3 appearing in a new style,

and a very few pennies being done the same....

[mick1271 159]

1 hour ago, jelida said:

Not an exact match I would say, though similar. We need photos of the two to the same magnification. Is there a list anywhere of the RM’s  overseas production during 1902/3? Anyone with a copy of Krause and time on their hands?

Jerry

I had a quick look at the obvious ones in Krause .Canadian 1 cent is a flat topped 3, Jamaica is different  and Guernseys 1903 was done by Heatons .If it is a punch for a foreign one , it will take a bit of work  or good luck to find it.

[Peckris 2 2,194]

Not possible IMO - the florin date is tiny compared to the penny. It just wouldn't work.

[blakeyboy 1,811]

19 minutes ago, Peckris 2 said:

Not possible IMO - the florin date is tiny compared to the penny. It just wouldn't work.

Yes, I think you are right ( I've alerted the media) but it's the coincidental change of style that intrigues me...

[ozjohn 680]

Date of my 1903 florin. Looks about the same as the previous example.

[secret santa 2,384]

1903 penny

[Rob 3,220]

You also have to consider punches used for medals

[Martinminerva 355]

I remember reading years ago, and goodness knows where (but might have been in an ancient Coin Monthly), that there was a conjecture that these open 3s might actually have been overdates on a 1902 die due to the matching curve at the top of both 3 and 2 and some hint of a flatter straight at the bottom of the open 3 to match the remains of the horizontal of the 2. If so, perhaps a numeral punch was not in fact used at all, but rather the open 3 was skilfully hand-cut into the die, by a meticulous engraver. Such hand cut digits do exist elsewhere in the UK coinage series according to eg. Davies and others. Just a thought - perhaps a punch search might be in vain!!

[1949threepence 3,368]

Stylistically similar, but there are obvious marked differences. So definitely not the same punch.