Charles I halfcrown, North 2205, obv. reads "HIBE"

[JLS 210]

Hello all, 

Purchased this coin at Morton and Eden the week before last in a bulk lot...I note the obverse reading of HIBE which is unusual - would anyone who has a copy of Bull kindly confirm if published? 

I like the old ticket but don't know how far back it is from, there seem to be three different hands on it ! Presumably post-1920, as "Francis" I assume refers to G. R. Francis Collection (Glendining, 24 March 1920)...but a long time before Brooker or even Lockett (?). 

All the best, 

J

[Cliff 46]

Can't see any specific HIBE ref in M.G's volume 1 but notice many (perhaps all?) of M.B's Plume mm's are N.2205, S.2769 with a Hawkins 2a ref.  Could the two 2a refs on the ticket be more specific Hawkins refs?  Confess to not having Hawkins knowledge at all.

Cliff

[JLS 210]

6 hours ago, Cliff said:

Can't see any specific HIBE ref in M.G's volume 1 but notice many (perhaps all?) of M.B's Plume mm's are N.2205, S.2769 with a Hawkins 2a ref.  Could the two 2a refs on the ticket be more specific Hawkins refs?  Confess to not having Hawkins knowledge at all.

Cliff

Cheers Cliff...well Hawkins 2a is just North 2205 as far as I can see (from the 1841 edition)...he doesn't include it in the plates though. Maybe Hawkins 1876 is a bit more thorough, but I'm content it's an unpublished die if not in Bull; of course, it would have appeared in Glendening's in 1968, and probably in a lot of sales before that, but I would guess never illustrated.  

[Rob 3,219]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:53 PM, JLS said:

Cheers Cliff...well Hawkins 2a is just North 2205 as far as I can see (from the 1841 edition)...he doesn't include it in the plates though. Maybe Hawkins 1876 is a bit more thorough, but I'm content it's an unpublished die if not in Bull; of course, it would have appeared in Glendening's in 1968, and probably in a lot of sales before that, but I would guess never illustrated.  

Assume nothing. There were two plume marked 2a halfcrowns in lot 268 (bought by Crowther), one VF and the other nearly so but small. Both had the number of pellets as stops listed, and it doesn't match. We can be reasonably confident the coin was Burstal's despite this inconsistency as the ticket has FOL plus the number and that matches FOL 112 on the two tickets imaged in Eaglen's article. An explanation of what FOL means would be useful with the number change. It's worth noting that one of the tickets in the BNJ with FOL 112 on it was acquired from Seaby in 1948, so this may have been acquired prior to that date.

Other disposals noted in Manville & Robertson were made in 1957, but that was milled silver, and 1984 was hammered gold. I don't have old man Burstal's catalogue, so can't check that.

On somewhat more solid ground. Hawkins 2a and Francis 2a with mm. plume are the same. Not in Francis is correct. None of the 17 obverse readings used HIBE. The 5 after the lower 2a must refer to the Francis harp type as it is the only flat fronted harp he listed. He doesn't list a plume marked reverse with 5 pellets left/1 pellet right of mark, but notes 2 reverses for the following mark rose. The first has a different harp to that seen, but significantly this harp is used on the second rose marked reverse (Francis 5), with the added bonus of Francis noting that it has a pellet each side of and between C R. I think we can eliminate the 5 as referring to the reverse number as the mark is wrong. It is therefore worth checking any rose marked examples with this pellet feature to see if this is the same die recut with the new mark. If it is, it would probably place the die right at the end of plume. Brooker 301 uses the same harp, but is a different reverse die. He didn't have an obverse reading HIBE either.

S2113 places that prior to 1977 when the Seaby references changed.

Thinking out loud, I wonder if he passed a number of coins to offspring, as the number of Tower halfcrowns in the '68 sale was little more than a type collection exercise. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Rob