Royal Mint Holding Auctions Asking For Consignments?

[VickySilver 881]

I am surprised this topic has not been broached. I was surprised to read the Royal Mint is to conduct (or would it be Sovereign Rarities) auctions and taking consignments for it, as would an ordinary auction house. This just somehow seems a bit odd, and possibly inappropriate. Or maybe I am just a bit too stuffy? In my humble opinion they have been just a bit to busy, what with the proliferation of recent offerings and now stepping into the auction world. It also seems that if they have accepted a consignment that the piece(s) now have their blessing or endorsement. What say you?

[1949threepence 3,368]

I had no idea. 

What are they auctioning?

[Sword 1,516]

Mostly their own offerings produced in the last couple of decades.

https://www.royalmint.com/collect/auction/auction-archive/

 

[VickySilver 881]

Which I understand - the clearance of "junque" but please note the last bit I wrote about concerning their endorsement, not to mention the possible deception as to the origin of some lots..

[Sword 1,516]

I didn't like the idea at first. But all major auction houses guarantee the genuineness of their lots and most have probably made mistakes in the past. Perhaps we shouldn't expect any different from the RM auctions. 

But in my view, they have already sink low enough trying to sell past coins for totally ridiculous prices. This made me laugh: https://www.royalmint.com/shop/monarch/queen-elizabeth-ii/1953-Elizabeth-II-Commemorative-Crown/

They are selling jewellery now https://886.royalmint.com/ Just have a look at those prices.

Since their coins are now just commemoratives, do they not resemble a souvenir store? Would they consider using the motto "Souvenirs for the nation. Souvenirs for any occasion." 

 

[VickySilver 881]

Indeed, and IMHO they are cheapening "the Brand". They are really starting to drive me away and there are few bits I order from them, whilst confessing to getting a couple of the Great Sculptor coins. I have even gotten some of their clearance items in the past - which should have remained duly on the shelves of the RM warehouse.

I think I was getting not so much as authenticity but on the notion that coins at their auction somehow now have a RM provenance - almost hinting at the buyer at such auctions could be latter day Norwebs & all.

A bit of a diversion:  of course some of us remember when the Pretoria Branch Mint DID INDEED deaqusition their holdings, or at least a substantial portion & don't think the RM will be doing so....

[Peckris 2 2,190]

14 hours ago, Sword said:

But in my view, they have already sink low enough trying to sell past coins for totally ridiculous prices. This made me laugh: https://www.royalmint.com/shop/monarch/queen-elizabeth-ii/1953-Elizabeth-II-Commemorative-Crown/

OMG, that's utterly shameless. I could barely give them away as a dealer 25 years ago. They, along with Churchills and 1977 crowns, were the coins you dreaded people trying to sell you. I couldn't really offer any more than face value, or a little bit more.

[1949threepence 3,368]

One piece of advice  I would always give to those interested in buying commemoratives - buy gold. Whatever else happens, they will never lose their bullion value. 

[Sword 1,516]

But the price up from bullion value is so high that one might need to wait for decades to break even. True, a few do well but most won't. I would say just don't buy random commemoratives for "investment". Investing in coins is like investing in shares - you need to know what you are doing.

[1949threepence 3,368]

3 hours ago, Sword said:

But the price up from bullion value is so high that one might need to wait for decades to break even. True, a few do well but most won't. I would say just don't buy random commemoratives for "investment". Investing in coins is like investing in shares - you need to know what you are doing.

However, if you must buy commemoratives, then gold ones are the best IMO. By orders of magnitude. 

[Sword 1,516]

True. If you spend £10k on gold commemoratives, you might end up with around 5k worth when you sell. However,  spending 10k on silver commemoratives might leave you with just 2k worth.

[copper123 1,550]

By doing this they put themselves in a "Conflict of interests" between themselves and the public .

In other words they end up making more money from the public and "Investors"

At least if these were sold by an unrelated auction house there would be no connection between the producer and the consumer.

[Sword 1,516]

I don't think there is any conflict of interest TBH. The royal mint is obliged to supply the public with circulating coins which they do. Their other interest is just to make as much money as possible. I don't imagine they would care where that money comes from.

[Peckris 2 2,190]

2 hours ago, Sword said:

I don't think there is any conflict of interest TBH. The royal mint is obliged to supply the public with circulating coins which they do. Their other interest is just to make as much money as possible. I don't imagine they would care where that money comes from.

There should be a separate branch of the Mint which is TOTALLY divorced from the production side.

[Mr T 189]

On 6/12/2023 at 11:32 PM, VickySilver said:

A bit of a diversion:  of course some of us remember when the Pretoria Branch Mint DID INDEED deaqusition their holdings, or at least a substantial portion & don't think the RM will be doing so....

What year was that?

The Royal Australian Mint sold off a bunch of its collection (1987 or so onwards) including some rare patterns. Bit of a shame I thought, even if it was good that a few things saw the light of day.

[VickySilver 881]

Ah, wish I could tell you exactly but I recall it was early to mid 90s. It was very large and included such as gold strikes of all the "silver" denominations that are attributed to the LONDON mint! Also matte proof sets of all the 1927-1953 years, and BOTH 1922/4 LONDON mint satin specimen/proof sets, and proof sets of many other years (so called VIP record proofs). Even at that time with relatively low interest in proofs of George V and VI, all of these sold relatively rapidly at what today would be bargain prices. I was desperate to pull together funds to get what I could as I knew that there could not be too many such hordes out there.

Again what was remarkable is not that many were very rare (which they were) but in some cases represented the sole source of some coins, and these also again London mint issues! Nobody has ever been able to explain to me how in the world that occurred. As far as I know there was no official announcement of these sales and although I can not prove it, am of the understand that these left under somewhat nefarious circumstances with "insiders" walking away with many for but a song.

As a side note it is and was very difficult to get sets from the 1928-1936 years that included TRUE Wreath crowns in proof; parenthetically I regret to say that many of the slabbed Wreath proofs IMHO, as well as Steve Hills, and M. Rasmussen are not actually proofs. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by VickySilver

[1949threepence 3,368]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:02 PM, copper123 said:

By doing this they put themselves in a "Conflict of interests" between themselves and the public .

In other words they end up making more money from the public and "Investors"

At least if these were sold by an unrelated auction house there would be no connection between the producer and the consumer.

Totally agree. It is, intrinsically, a conflict of interest.

[copper123 1,550]

17 hours ago, Sword said:

I don't think there is any conflict of interest TBH. The royal mint is obliged to supply the public with circulating coins which they do. Their other interest is just to make as much money as possible. I don't imagine they would care where that money comes from.

Like a criminal or terrorist then - by the way I am pretty sure they make more from coins that DON'T circulate now many circulating coins probably cost way more to produce than their face value.

I am pretty sure soon you will be seeing in the papers about bronze pennies and twopences being melted

[Sword 1,516]

I totally agree that since the Royal Mint is government owned, it should therefore serve the national and shouldn't sell coins at rip off prices. However, auctions will have hammered prices closer to the market prices (in contrast to some of the stuff they are currently selling in their shop).

Hence, if there is a conflict of interest, it has already occurred before the introduction of auctions. 

Their own article highlights their profit has rocketed from 12.4 millions to 18 millions.

 https://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/press-centre/gold-shines-for-the-royal-mint-as-it-announces-record-18-million-pre-tax-profit/

[copper123 1,550]

Gold shines yes and theres lots of that in circulation isn't there LOL

[Mr T 189]

On 6/15/2023 at 10:14 PM, VickySilver said:

Ah, wish I could tell you exactly but I recall it was early to mid 90s. It was very large and included such as gold strikes of all the "silver" denominations that are attributed to the LONDON mint! Also matte proof sets of all the 1927-1953 years, and BOTH 1922/4 LONDON mint satin specimen/proof sets, and proof sets of many other years (so called VIP record proofs). Even at that time with relatively low interest in proofs of George V and VI, all of these sold relatively rapidly at what today would be bargain prices. I was desperate to pull together funds to get what I could as I knew that there could not be too many such hordes out there.

Again what was remarkable is not that many were very rare (which they were) but in some cases represented the sole source of some coins, and these also again London mint issues! Nobody has ever been able to explain to me how in the world that occurred. As far as I know there was no official announcement of these sales and although I can not prove it, am of the understand that these left under somewhat nefarious circumstances with "insiders" walking away with many for but a song.

Interesting, I remember seeing a 1966 Australian specimen set offered for sale and it was reportedly from the Pretoria Mint collection - no other details though.