1897 Penny - NGC calls these two High Tide, seems incorrect

[SilverAge3 81]

I know it's common for people (dealers, eBay sellers) to misattribute the tides on 1895, 1897, 1902, but I'm looking at the NGC slabbed offerings, and they often seem off. I'm not wrong am I, that these two 1897 labelled as High Tide aren't actually high tide?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186136288294

https://www.ebay.com/itm/232339243134

It rather muddies the waters more if every available slabbed "High Tide" isn't, (or Low Tide for 1902), and lends credence to every other seller thinking they also have the rarer tide. The damage NGC does is infuriating, doubly so as they're raking in so much, while throwing fuel in this fire. They need to work a bit on earning expertise credentials. 

Edited February 21, 2024 by SilverAge3

[blakeyboy 1,809]

Neither of those offerings is F148. 

If purchased, the seller gets the wrath of the buyer when the true value of the coin is known,

not the grading company, so this is just laziness on the seller's part, so they deserve all they get.

 

I love the pricing disparity as well!

[SilverAge3 81]

Of course 90% or more of all the 1897 HT listings are in deed not HT, I'm just irritated how NGC makes matters worse. I did see a seller recently at least state an 1860 was mislabelled by NGC as beaded border.

[SilverAge3 81]

4 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

I love the pricing disparity as well!

Yeah, tho still steep, at least the lower one is in orbit for the standard die

[david.bordeaux 177]

I recently bought this 1895 penny, completely outside my usual area of interest, as I'm doing some research into George de Saulles. I know next to nothing about pennies, but assume from the price I paid that this is the more common variety of high/low tide on the reverse?

[oldcopper 286]

On 2/21/2024 at 6:43 AM, SilverAge3 said:

Of course 90% or more of all the 1897 HT listings are in deed not HT, I'm just irritated how NGC makes matters worse. I did see a seller recently at least state an 1860 was mislabelled by NGC as beaded border.

 

1 hour ago, david.bordeaux said:

I recently bought this 1895 penny, completely outside my usual area of interest, as I'm doing some research into George de Saulles. I know next to nothing about pennies, but assume from the price I paid that this is the more common variety of high/low tide on the reverse?

Do you know why he died so young (42)? I think that's the normal higher tide 1mm variety.

Edited March 11, 2024 by oldcopper

[david.bordeaux 177]

29 minutes ago, oldcopper said:

 

Do you know why he died so young (42)? I think that's the normal higher tide 1mm variety.

In fact he was only 41. So far I have only found that he died after a "very short illness". In his obituary in the Numismatic Chronicle, his former employer John Pinches suggests that overwork contributed to his death: "It is to be feared that his devotion to his art, which kept him working early and late, weakened a constitution never very robust and helped on the end so much to be deplored."

Edited March 11, 2024 by david.bordeaux

[david.bordeaux 177]

17 hours ago, david.bordeaux said:

In fact he was only 41. So far I have only found that he died after a "very short illness". In his obituary in the Numismatic Chronicle, his former employer John Pinches suggests that overwork contributed to his death: "It is to be feared that his devotion to his art, which kept him working early and late, weakened a constitution never very robust and helped on the end so much to be deplored."

I have since discovered that George de Saulles died of peritonitis after surgery for appendicitis.

[Peckris 2 2,189]

On 3/11/2024 at 3:26 PM, david.bordeaux said:

I recently bought this 1895 penny, completely outside my usual area of interest, as I'm doing some research into George de Saulles. I know next to nothing about pennies, but assume from the price I paid that this is the more common variety of high/low tide on the reverse?

Yes - the scarce variety used to be called the "2mm variety" as that was the distance from the trident to P of PENNY, greater that that on the normal variety. The scarce variety also has a sea level so low it's barely there behind Britannia.

[secret santa 2,382]

[Kipster 222]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Very nice indeed.

[SilverAge3 81]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:54 AM, secret santa said:

Wow

[freewheels 2]

Can somebody please provide a good picture of a high grade High Tide 1897 Penny please?

[Paddy 1,861]

There is a good example on this page - right at the bottom:

https://headsntails14.wordpress.com/victoria-bronze-reverses/

 

[Raven Coins 5]

[PWA 1967 2,233]

Raven coins welcome to the forum 😀 👍.

Another indicator i look at for the 1897 High tide if not the clearest picture is the shield almost touching the teeth ,on the normal one there is a gap.

[oldcopper 286]

[SilverAge3 81]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:52 PM, Raven Coins said:

Nice example, wish I could find one so nice on offer.

Welcome to the forum.

Edited April 8, 2024 by SilverAge3

[Raven Coins 5]

12 hours ago, SilverAge3 said:

Nice example, wish I could find one so nice on offer.

Welcome to the forum.

 

 

[Raven Coins 5]

4 minutes ago, Raven Coins said:

 

This is available for exchange against a Double Sovereign

[SilverAge3 81]

Alas I don't have a dbl sov

[Nala 15]

Hello

My first and last post was a few months ago in a ‘Welcome recent new members’ topic.

As I said I have been in the background for years but photography has been an issue.

Anyway, I have bought a new camera.

So as there had been a topic on 1897 High Tide I thought I would start with a coin I bought over twenty years ago.

I had moved on from pennies at the time so put it away in a box.

Thoughts?

[Nala 15]

[Nala 15]

[Nala 15]

Any suggestions for easy programmes to decrease the size of photos to 0.49Mb?

I used ‘Resize’ in Windows but could do with a programme that I could request 490KB as Resize took it to 292KB

Many thanks

Alan