1797 Copper Twopence at auction

[Kipster 217]

Morning,

I saw this yesterday and wondered what your thoughts on it are. I don't know much about these George III coins at all with so many patterns etc, but there's so much here that looks wrong to me that I wanted to see what you thought?

https://auctions.thecoincabinet.com/lots/view/4-F9I0ID/1797-copper-twopence-restrike-about-as-struck

[Paddy 1,723]

I don't know much about the proofs, but as a circulation issue, it certainly looks wrong to me. The lines are too pronounced and artificial - what I call "Cartoon like".

[Kipster 217]

Britannia's face looks like she's been stung by a wasp.

[jelida 1,314]

I would say it was modern Chinese cr*p. It’s awful.

Jerry

[jelida 1,314]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006873895972.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.7ac3inMainMa40&algo_pvid=744347d2-09c9-4106-b574-6d8ad2874ada&algo_exp_id=744347d2-09c9-4106-b574-6d8ad2874ada-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis!GBP!6.58!3.03!!!8.00!3.68!%4021411ecc17326450914416126eb77a!12000038588320792!sea!UK!0!ABX&curPageLogUid=k2O51YhL8kcR&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch|query_from%3A
 

[jelida 1,314]

I have emailed Coin Cabinet. This is really poor.  ☹️🤡

[secret santa 2,325]

There is a circled character (or something similar) clearly stamped on both sides.

Edited November 26, 2024 by secret santa
addition

[Coinery 1,153]

Two big fat Rs for Restrike…or is that Replica? Terrible show!

[Kipster 217]

I messaged the coin cabinet when I saw it, but as yet had no reply either. I'm sure I had an email from them a while back detailing some business changes, but can't find it now. Perhaps there's new staff etc.

[SilverAge3 80]

Oh that's really bad

How did that pass mustre?

I see a few already reached out.

 

But that is disappointing and sort of lowers my estimation of them. Not a good look.

Edited November 27, 2024 by SilverAge3

[jelida 1,314]

I just received this reply from CC, and they are now calling it a ‘replica’ rather than ‘restrike’. They really should have pulled it, to sell it does not enhance their reputation.

“Thank you for brining this to my attention. This coin was supposed to be catalogued as a replica example and the description has now been updated. 

 

Thank you again”

 

So you could have whole auctions of Chinese replicas? Idiocy. And much cheaper on Aliexpress.

 

Jerry

[jelida 1,314]

25 minutes ago, jelida said:

I just received this reply from CC, and they are now calling it a ‘replica’ rather than ‘restrike’. They really should have pulled it, to sell it does not enhance their reputation.

 

“Thank you for brining this to my attention. This coin was supposed to be catalogued as a replica example and the description has now been updated. 

 

Thank you again”

 

So you could have whole auctions of Chinese replicas? Idiocy. And much cheaper on Aliexpress.

 

Jerry

My reply to CC,  will they take any notice? 
 

“Thank you for replying Tim, though I find the decision to continue with the sale of the Chinese Replica baffling, as do many others online - it’s a hot topic on one of the major on-line fora. You probably also need to review the ‘mintage’ figure you quote, as they are still being produced in China and available online for about £3. If it is purchased by a less aware client, they may not be happy when they notice the letter R punched on both sides and it does not enhance CC’s reputation.

On the other hand, if it does sell would you sell a couple of dozen for me ?

 

Regards,

Jerry”

 

[Kipster 217]

54 minutes ago, jelida said:

I just received this reply from CC, and they are now calling it a ‘replica’ rather than ‘restrike’. They really should have pulled it, to sell it does not enhance their reputation.

 

“Thank you for brining this to my attention. This coin was supposed to be catalogued as a replica example and the description has now been updated. 

 

Thank you again”

 

So you could have whole auctions of Chinese replicas? Idiocy. And much cheaper on Aliexpress.

 

Jerry

I had exactly the same reply. I should imagine there'll be a few of these being sent out. 

[jelida 1,314]

I think the “coin” may have been pulled, as the link now reads ‘lot not found’.

Jerry

[Paddy 1,723]

Still showing on Easylive.

 

[jelida 1,314]

27 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Still showing on Easylive.

 

It has been pulled, see this further email that I have just received. But they may re-offer it for sale in the future!  Is this guy serious, or just trying to cover up a really basic error? Time will tell. Confidence seriously shot, either way.

“Good afternoon,

 

Thank you for getting back to me. 

Yes, we would still offer this coin, however it was intended to be in a monthly timed e-sale but unfortunately, made it's way into the premium due to the error in cataloguing as re-strike rather than replica. Lot 209 has been withdrawn and will be in our next e-sale with an updated description. If you would like to consign with us our commission is 8% and we would be delighted to assist you. 

 

Once again thank you for alerting us to this error sadly some to slip through the net.

 

All the best,

Tim Langley”

 

Jerry

[SilverAge3 80]

This...isn't really helping their reputation.

 

Are they really doubling down? Did they carelessly buy this full price, and would rather pass it off to the unaware buyer, than to protect reputation. This is very shortsighted. They could lose lots more than being taken by a replica in a purchase. I had promoted their auctions in very active coin groups on discord and also on telegram, as my experience thus far had been good, and they are less known among Americans, but offer a variety of world and ancient coins, and I'm in in among many dedicated groups of buyers. I am rethinking sharing their listings though, as I'm not cosigning this.

Edited November 27, 2024 by SilverAge3

[Paddy 1,723]

Still showing on Easylive!

[SilverAge3 80]

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

Still showing on Easylive!

You have a link to it on there?

[Paddy 1,723]

Here you go:

https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogue/lot/fad1b8005fe5a28bb97fcdf7932f24fb/0af8d24542e81eb9357e7ef448a6646f/auction-119-premium-guineas-unites-sovereigns-penn-lot-209/

 

[jelida 1,314]

They will have posted the catalogue to Easylive some time ago and it’s probably more difficult to update.  But I suspect it will be passed when it comes to the actual auction.

Jerry

[Paddy 1,723]

Still there now. It doesn't take more than 30 seconds to take down a listing on Easylive - I've watched an auctioneer doing it!

I'm afraid my opinion of The Coin Cabinet is dropping like a stone.

 

[Peckris 2 2,127]

On 11/26/2024 at 10:51 AM, Kipster said:

Morning,

I saw this yesterday and wondered what your thoughts on it are. I don't know much about these George III coins at all with so many patterns etc, but there's so much here that looks wrong to me that I wanted to see what you thought?

https://auctions.thecoincabinet.com/lots/view/4-F9I0ID/1797-copper-twopence-restrike-about-as-struck

It's coming up "Lot not found "?

[jelida 1,314]

1 hour ago, Peckris 2 said:

It's coming up "Lot not found "?

It’s been pulled, see above.

Jerry