1954 penny

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

Hello. This 1954 unique circulation penny was recently sold by Bernie Workman through Sovereign Auctions. In November 2024.

I saw some speculation on this forum as to who the buyer might be who purchased this penny and a number of the other pennies at the same auction - and whether it may have been bought by an American investor. (I think it was someone called Secret Santa asking).

Well i can put your mind at rest that i am neither American nor an investor - i am a private British collector who has specialised in primarily bronze circulation pennies for over 50 years (though i do now have quite a nice collection of copper pennies too). If you had designs on buying it you may actually have preferred an investor to have bought it, for as a collector i virtually never sell anything, and this penny will hopefully not be sold again or seen again, apart from being able to be viewed over the internet.

I do believe that i have probably the finest collection of bronze pennies in the world (including the museums), though one or two of you may challenge that assertion, but my collection also includes one of the only 2 available 1933 circulation pennies and a host of other R19 and R20 pennies. Although i don't ever sell any of my coins as a rule, i am more than happy to share the collection with you through a link on here if anyone is interested in viewing it. Just let me know.

[Coinery 1,167]

Well that’s some claim CPC and phenomenal to have you on here and in touch with us all!

Wow, without being overbearingly starstruck, that’s quite something, and great news to hear these Great British coins are still gracing a UK collection. 🙏
 

[VickySilver 857]

Scary one at that. We don't often hear claims like that on these Boards but it might be interesting to see a photo montage of at least the highlights...There are definitely some stoppers in the Penny series.

[Paddy 1,781]

Great to hear @Circulation penny collecto and welcome to this forum.

It would be great to see images of your collection, if you are prepared to share them?

@secret santa on here has created the most comprehensive guide to pennies online that I am aware of, and I am sure he would be just as keen to see yours. Hopefully, with your agreement, he could include some images from your collection in his guide?

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

Thank you for your warm and generous welcome, which is very much appreciated. 

My pennies are listed on www.penny-collection.com so i can now sit back and wait for you to tear my claim of having a very fine collection into pieces!!! I have read some of the threads on here and i certainly do NOT claim to have equal knowledge to many of those who post on this website - so i am very much hoping to learn new things from you!

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

PS Hello Mr Coinery - and yes, i still want that 1808 penny when you are ready to sell it to me!!

[Rob 3,160]

I can help update your list. The F245 cost £6 plus postage from me in May 2020

[jelida 1,348]

Hello Kevin and welcome to the forum. You have a wonderful collection, I wish that I had your resources. Interesting in your reference to the Merrion Centre in Leeds, that was the first coin shop I ever visited, as a teenager, when visiting my grandmother; I purchased a hammered groat of the Bristol mint, still in my collection.

Your website has been widely known to penny collectors for some years now, and I am glad to see that it has been updated with your latest purchases, and that you are advertising it ,and I am also pleased to see that so many important coins are staying in the country. But there are a couple of statements that you make that I must gently take issue with. Firstly I wish that you didn’t ascribe non-existent Freeman numbers to your coins; if it’s not published in Freeman, it can’t have a Freeman number! Gouby references most of the coins in question, why not use his system?  Secondly , why make untested statements such as ‘finest known’  or ‘probably R19’ ? In my experience, these almost always prove incorrect with time (I know some to be very debatable) though it is reasonable to quote published (Peck, Freeman, Satin, Gouby) figures that have been subject to research and the test of time.

But to end the nit-picking; I hope you enjoy your interactions with the penny collectors and others on this forum, you are now on the cutting edge of the ongoing study of these wonderful coins.

Jerry

 

[jelida 1,348]

1 hour ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

PS Hello Mr Coinery - and yes, i still want that 1808 penny when you are ready to sell it to me!!

I think there is confusion here Kevin,  our Coinery (Stuart) is not to be confused with ‘The Coinery’ (Guy) who has the 1808 penny. And I think Stu came first!

Jerry

[Peckris 2 2,147]

10 hours ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

Thank you for your warm and generous welcome, which is very much appreciated. 

My pennies are listed on www.penny-collection.com so i can now sit back and wait for you to tear my claim of having a very fine collection into pieces!!! I have read some of the threads on here and i certainly do NOT claim to have equal knowledge to many of those who post on this website - so i am very much hoping to learn new things from you!

Well, that is a pretty awesome collection, and yes I'm envious!

Can I make two corrections and an observation on what I've seen so far?

1. The mintage figure for the 1869 only accounts for all pennies minted in that year. An unknown but significant number of these were dated 1868.

2. OMNIUM does not mean a long life - it’s part of OMNIUM BRITANNIARUM meaning “(ruler) of all the Britons”, OMNIUM meaning “of all”.

3. One penny that you may still be lusting after is the ?proof 1926ME that has the non-mule, i.e. 1927, reverse, of which I believe only 1 is known?

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

Thank you for your valued comments.

To respond - first to Mr Peckris, the 1926 proof is not missing as it is a collection of circulation pennies. Secondly to Stuart (coinery), apologies for the confusion. Thirdly to Jerry - i do not agree that it is wrong to say "probably R19" if between 2 and 5 are currently known, and if more are found one day i would change it to "probably R18". If you have FACTS that say otherwise then so be it. Otherwise it is not wrong to state the current number known as being probably correct. I also disagree with you that i should mix up my labelling by using Freeman here and Gouby there as it would be chaotic - i am quite happy to add a subsection to the Freeman number where it is primarily the same coin but perhaps with a different date width. 

 

[Peckris 2 2,147]

25 minutes ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

Thank you for your valued comments.

To respond - first to Mr Peckris, the 1926 proof is not missing as it is a collection of circulation pennies.

Ok, I take that point, but… 1. it’s an obverse / reverse combination unknown on circulation pennies and therefore surely desirable? 2. it could very strongly be argued that NONE of the 1933 pennies was intended for circulation.

Nevertheless an incredible collection.

[Menger 92]

11 hours ago, jelida said:

You have a wonderful collection, I wish that I had your resources.

Bit presumptuous? We cannot know what trade-offs a collector might make over a lifetime. Or perhaps a collector is motivated to obtain resources in order to perfect a collection. I also wish I had more resources mind.  Perhaps a full stop at least is needed between the two sub-clauses. 🤣

[Menger 92]

11 hours ago, jelida said:

I am also pleased to see that so many important coins are staying in the country

Does that matter for private coin collections in this age of internet auctions?  My humble collection resides with me overseas - but I don’t see the practical difference between that and it being in a bank vault (or under a bed) in the UK.  In either case, private collections can be shared on the internet - or squirreled away. What we do benefit from is a liquid market that links supply and demand across the globe.  🇬🇧

Edited Tuesday at 12:06 AM by Menger

[Menger 92]

I am intrigued: is this the best circulation penny collection in the world? Does anyone know of a better collection? 

(I like the concept. I aspire to have the best collection of silver threepences, Britannia groats and other tiny British (empire) silver one day … 🇬🇧)

[jelida 1,348]

36 minutes ago, Menger said:

Bit presumptuous? We cannot know what trade-offs a collector might make over a lifetime. Or perhaps a collector is motivated to obtain resources in order to perfect a collection. I also wish I had more resources mind.  Perhaps a full stop at least is needed between the two sub-clauses. 🤣

Presumptuous? Unless Kevin had the resources, how could he have afforded such wonderful coins? The Workman spend alone is greater than my pension pot! Yet I still obsessively splash out when I can……

Jerry

[Menger 92]

13 minutes ago, jelida said:

Presumptuous? Unless Kevin had the resources, how could he have afforded such wonderful coins? The Workman spend alone is greater than my pension pot! Yet I still obsessively splash out when I can……

Jerry

Presumptuous in that you cannot know if he traded his pension pot to obtain it.  Or perhaps he did not have the resources initially, but worked to obtain them precisely to be able to afford the collection. Or perhaps you make a good guess - but even then I still think a full stop would be better than a comma.   The comma implies an explanatory link between the two subclauses that may overreach: there are plenty of people with resources who lack such a collection. 

Edited Tuesday at 12:34 AM by Menger

[jelida 1,348]

2 hours ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

 i am quite happy to add a subsection to the Freeman number where it is primarily the same coin but perhaps with a different date width. 

 

This is entirely your prerogative Kevin,  but why not just do what others do and state ‘not listed in Freeman’ and then your own description or reference? If we all did as you do, there could be dozens of Freeman 0’s 10 A, B, C’s etc in use all referring to different coins. Anarchy!  

Jerry

I will address the rarities issue tomorrow , the wife is grumbling about me using the iPad in bed!

[jelida 1,348]

7 minutes ago, Menger said:

Presumptuous in that you cannot know if he traded his (or her) pension pot to obtain it.  Or perhaps a good guess - but even then I still think a full stop would be better than a comma. 

I’m not sure where you want to go with this?  KB’s resources , as in my case, may well include a pension pot - they are still demonstrably resources spent that most of us do not have! Mr Booth is lucky enough I understand not to be limited financially in the way most of us are, and more power to his elbow, as the saying goes. And I too would much sooner see these coins stay in the country of origin and in the hands of a collector than with an overseas investor - that was the issue that was addressed in the original post! I did not to say that we should be prohibited from collecting whatever we want, from wherever we want.

And not a full stop, definitely a comma - If I had the ‘resources’ the prices would have been higher! But I did win two Workman lots.

Jerry

[Coinery 1,167]

On 2/3/2025 at 12:15 PM, jelida said:

I think there is confusion here Kevin,  our Coinery (Stuart) is not to be confused with ‘The Coinery’ (Guy) who has the 1808 penny. And I think Stu came first!

Jerry

Thanks, Jerry.

As is said @Circulation penny collecto, Guy and I are not quite the same…by quite a large sum I should imagine?  

Edited Tuesday at 12:42 PM by Coinery

[jelida 1,348]

13 hours ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

i do not agree that it is wrong to say "probably R19" if between 2 and 5 are currently known, and if more are found one day i would change it to "probably R18". If you have FACTS that say otherwise then so be it. Otherwise it is not wrong to state the current number known as being probably correct. 

In discussion of Freeman rarity allocations, we have to understand how they were arrived at,  which was by the study of over 60,000 pennies gathered randomly from circulation - a project that can never be repeated. They were not based on the collections of numismatists, which are inherently biased, and largely unpublished and untested. The sheer number of coins Freeman categorised cut the margin of error to give a factually based (but not necessarily perfect) estimation of comparative rarity, which in combination with official RM mintage figures and estimates of survival rates give the approximate numbers available to collectors today.  A ‘Freeman number’ and rarity estimation is that published in his book,  not something for us as individuals to make up - though by general consensus and consultation with Michael or his copyright holder modifications might be made.  If I as an individual collector find a coin that I think merits varietal status, it is not adequate just to ask around my mates and look on EBay or past catalogues and not finding any more to declare it R19 or R20.  Take your F10a, the ‘N over Z’ (actually N over sideways N) which you rate R17 - this is actually quite a common coin, often on EBay and in auctions and the latest Freeman already gives it a rarity rating - ‘R14?’- which is much more realistic. Your F10c - the triple F - you rate R18. Again seen reasonably frequently and nowhere near R18; Dave Craddock sold a fine example for £25 a couple of years ago, and he knows the market better than most. Similar applies to other examples that you have allocated spurious Freeman rarities to. You have a wonderful collection, certainly one of the best, you don’t need to embellish it.

Jerry

[jelida 1,348]

4 minutes ago, jelida said:

Removed duplicate post - my cock-up!

Edited Tuesday at 12:24 PM by jelida

[VickySilver 857]

Don't think he has a shallow pocket regardless. Many will remember Colin Adams and his domination of pennies, and to some extent, half crowns 20-25 years ago. He did not make many proclamations as I recall. As was stated elsewhere in this post, he may well have the best penny collection but that not necessarily something to broadcast IMHO. Also, interestingly there were others that checked the just mentioned collector's ability to corner either denomination.

However, I do congratulate Mr. Booth and as I have the chance will view his collection a bit more.

 

The bigger issue is the domination of the modern market for rare coins by those blessed with generous resources and the squeezing out of those with more modest means.

Edited Tuesday at 12:23 PM by VickySilver
clarity

[The Bee 154]

On 2/3/2025 at 10:31 AM, Circulation penny collecto said:

My pennies are listed on www.penny-collection.com so i can now sit back and wait for you to tear my claim of having a very fine collection into pieces!!! I have read some of the threads on here and i certainly do NOT claim to have equal knowledge to many of those who post on this website - so i am very much hoping to learn new things from you!

Amazing collection. Thank you for sharing ! 

[Master Jmd 89]

Very cool, thanks for sharing and congratulations on the recent acquisition.