1954 penny

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

What i observe is a number of intelligent and rational comments on this forum (from Menger for example), combined with completely irrational and ignorant comments from others (best not to name them).

Those who say it is wrong to put an approximate rarity value on coins for example must presume that they know better. Though personally i believe that people like Michael Gouby should not be insulted in this way when they list how many are currently known of various sub-varieties of Victorian pennies and are then presumably shredded by the same critics every time an extra one is discovered!

As for accusing me of "braggadocio", i catalogued my pennies in a visual format for my own benefit as i enjoy looking at them, not to boast to people i dont even know. They represent over 50 years of hard work and joy, and even with good funding one still has to seek out and build up gradually over a long period of time. I started at age 11 and some of the coins listed are survivors from then, when i certainly didnt have good funding. To be rightfully proud of one's collection and efforts is not the same as braggadocio. 

(Finally, as for being compared to Norris Cole, it is an observation and not an insult and i already have my own names for several others on here too who i observe as having similarities to various other "celebrities"!!!)

[jelida 1,348]

42 minutes ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

( it is an observation and not an insult and i already have my own names for several others on here too who i observe as having similarities to various other "celebrities"!!!)

Excellent idea!  Penny Trump?

Jerry

[VickySilver 857]

Braggadocio:   Sir, I do not think you understand how, or if you care, what you say is received by others which contrary to what you've said do come off as "boastful" (your word choice). There are likely people with collections that are on a similar level that do not enunciate such and yet are quite open in providing data, insight or opinions contributory to other members. Many also are of humble or lesser economic means but some not, yet no proclamations of such. Also, you will note that many including myself did give you praise & only suggested moderation in commentary is the choice many of us make - with the occasional disagreement displayed.

And again, many including myself have praised the positive in what you have shared with the rest of us.

You may recall that the current USA president has often criticized those of varied opinions to his own as somehow lesser or not intelligent, etc. In any case, Viva la Difference! 

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

Penny Trump it is then!

[jelida 1,348]

7 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

Well, as to the elephant in the room, I think 48 hours is long enough to have seen an apology for this undeserved slur.

Thanks for coming to my defence, Blakeyboy,  but I take no offence from PT/KB’s  comment, I have absolutely no idea who Norris Cole is but also I have a 4yr old grandson so I am quite used to name calling.’ Stinky Grandon ‘ is his current epithet I believe, bless his little heart! 
 

Jerry

 

[secret santa 2,349]

6 hours ago, Martinminerva said:

There was talk on here a few years back about an official re-write of Freeman (maybe either by Michael himself, or under his auspices?)

Chris Perkins had thought that it might be a future option. Michael Freeman had approved the release of the paperback version but had opted out of any future involvement himself.

[blakeyboy 1,757]

All so amusing, and reminding me of a lost time when you could have, when we were all much younger, for example's sake, a model aircraft club. All the members swapped info, ideas, and build techniques on how to get the most out of any model they own, or have built, or are hoping to build.

In the village there was The Model Shop. For many years, in the window, was the most magnificent model plane. An unattainable plane. The shopkeeper had to clean the window often, because our noses were pressed to the glass so regularly.

Then one day it vanished....

Later that week, a kid turned up at the club, and announced he had all the models that Airfix made, and now also owned the Plane from the Window.  We were all very interested and excited and couldn't wait to see what this new kid was offering. All we got was a promise of some pictures, but no plane to admire in the clubhouse, no chance to see it fly, no, we were told it wouldn't be seen again.

Those in the Club who liked the new member were described as 'intelligent and rational',

and those who though him a bit of a pushy upstart who really should know his place as  'bitter, irrational and ignorant'....

 

Hmm.....I've been here years, and I still feel an outsider, and from day one I've been respectful to members who know way more than I ever will about coins.

Piling in in the way we have seen this week, and saying what has been said is like the dealings of a petulant child.

It crosses a line with me.

 

 

Just because Trump does it doesn't mean anyone else should.

 

 

[The Bee 154]

4 hours ago, secret santa said:

Chris Perkins had thought that it might be a future option. Michael Freeman had approved the release of the paperback version but had opted out of any future involvement himself.

It feels like a huge challenge. The British Bronze Penny 1869-1901 by Mr Gouby, sets the bar on expectations . High definition colour illustrations coupled with well thought out text are a powerful combination. I would love to see the same for Halfpennies and Farthings. But once you extend to the end of the decimal period, to do it justice, its a shelf full of publications,

Your website feels a better and more flexible approach as I have no doubt more varieties will emerge in the next few years which can be captured in a website in a few days, rather than a 2nd edition printed publication. 

The 1905 smaller 0 is a good example (and jowly QV).   

Thanks again for the website !

 

[Menger 92]

3 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

Those in the Club who liked the new member were described as 'intelligent and rational',

I think this is out of sequence: I only liked him personally after he said that.  🥰 Beforehand, I was seeking to objectively explore the epistemology of dynamic systems  of distributed knowledge and the potential contribution he makes to such a system.  Also the concept of trade offs - as Thomas Aquinas put it - every (coin) acquisition is a renunciation.  Perhaps you need to introduce an additional character to your fable - that of the annoying and snooty school swat.  🤣 

Edited Thursday at 11:43 PM by Menger

[Menger 92]

11 hours ago, VickySilver said:

Viva la Difference! 

Do you mean “Vive la difference!”?

I agree. I think the forum can only benefit from the odd colourful character.  We have had a few now. Diversity is our strength! 

Edited yesterday at 02:17 AM by Menger

[Menger 92]

6 hours ago, blakeyboy said:

We were all very interested and excited and couldn't wait to see what this new kid was offering. All we got was a promise of some pictures, but no plane to admire in the clubhouse, no chance to see it fly, no, we were told it wouldn't be seen again.

 

Did the other kids bring their planes to the clubhouse, or keep them locked up safely at home? If they kept them at home, when could we expect to see them next? Did they freely post generous  photos of their collections? Did they dare make up their own model numbers to fill gaps or did they dutifully follow established orthodoxy and ignore the gaps? Did they vape? 

Edited yesterday at 03:18 AM by Menger

[Martinminerva 341]

11 hours ago, The Bee said:

more varieties will emerge in the next few years which can be captured in a website in a few days, rather than a 2nd edition printed publication. 

Very true, but websites have a habit of vanishing when the person behind it no longer supports it for whatever reason. Web archiving  eg. The Wayback Machine does not seem to preserve pictures, and for coin varieties, they would seem to be essential.  We have been talking about Joe Lee's farthingshalfpennyerrors.com recently, and also the about farthings website and others that are no more. Many years ago there was a brilliant website about threehalfpences and groats, but again now totally gone. A book gives permanence, even if outdated in time in terms of new discoveries. We still refer to Peck and Freeman as something of "bibles", and rightly so, the originals of which go back fifty plus years. And likewise, Gouby's has decades of pedigree.  The best bet for me is both media - a book for a permanent record and ease of ready reference, and websites for latest discoveries etc. When appropriate, the latters' findings can then be incorporated into revised editions. ESC is now onto its 7th incarnation, I think, and still going strong.  Website only research and publication will become totally lost in time, which is just a terrible waste.

[Circulation penny collecto 15]

A couple of things.

An observation and then a question.

Firstly the observation responding to those criticising me for adding a letter after the freeman number. Taking F38 as an example (1862 2+g) is followed by F39 (1862 6+g). Since i added the only 1862 (3+g) which was not catalogued by Freeman - i cannot see any other way to list it other than F38A, unless it be F38.5.

Secondly a question, so that hopefully i can learn things from your expertise instead of just arguing about toy aeroplanes. It regards the heavy flan pennies of the early 1860s. I want to know the following:

1. What was the purpose of introducing them? (Some weighing up to 16.3g compared with the standard 9.5g were surely an unnecessary potential extra expense).

2. Why are there so few of them?

3. Do you think they were genuine circulation pennies or do you think they were Trial/Pattern pennies which just escaped into the general population?

Thank you in advance for your answers.

[Rob 3,160]

Re the heavy flans, I think the only options are trials or struck on the wrong flans, i.e. a flan used for a colonial issue. The denomination specifications are stipulated in the proclamation document, so intentionally struck on a heavy flan for circulation shouldn't come into it.

[jelida 1,348]

3 hours ago, Circulation penny collecto said:

Firstly the observation responding to those criticising me for adding a letter after the freeman number. Taking F38 as an example (1862 2+g) is followed by F39 (1862 6+g). Since i added the only 1862 (3+g) which was not catalogued by Freeman - i cannot see any other way to list it other than F38A, unless it be F38.5.

I’m not sure that the answer is straightforward. Although this variety is listed in the appendix of the most recent Freeman,  it (in common with other new discoveries) has not been allocated a Freeman number. In reality, the variety is no more an F38 than an F39 as in both cases the obverses are different and so it is not a sub-variety of either. All I can do is tell you what I do in these circumstances, pending a complete revision of Freeman. I catalogue my pennies by date primarily, Freeman number secondarily (occasionally Gouby No where he recognises the type) and in the absence of any published varietal identifier I write something like ‘not in Freeman’ and a summary of what makes it different eg ‘Freeman 3+G’  or ‘14 teeth’ or whatever. That has the advantage that it is universally applicable, anybody reading my tickets knows what he is dealing with.

Jerry