William I Penny, 1074-1077

[Citizen H 75]

William I,  Penny 

Two Stars type 1074-1077

Obverse

Crowned facing portrait between two stars, legend around.

Script: Latin

Lettering: + ǷILLEM REX AN

Unabridged legend: Pillelm Rex Anglorum

Translation: William King of the English

Reverse

Quadrilateral over cross with pellets, moneyer & mint name around.

Script: Latin

Lettering: + SIǷIORD ON ǷNCE

Translation: Siward of Winchester

Mints

London, United Kingdom (650-1279)

Winchester, England (871-1272)

Comments

Norman Kings (1066-1154), William I (the Conqueror)(1066-87), Silver penny, Two stars type.

Numerous moneyer and mint name varieties exist. BMC#5

Duke William of Normandy claimed the throne of England on the death of his cousin Edward the Confessor. An important monetary reform occurred towards the close of the reign with the introduction of the geld de moneta assessed on boroughs. This may be seen as part of the raft of administrative reforms initiated by William I, which included the compilation of the Domesday Book in 1086.

 

With great sadness its not owned by me.... does anyone on the forum have one in their collection? would be nice to see one... all the best "H"

[Paddy 1,861]

Well yes, I have this one. Different designs.

S1251 "Bonnet type" minted in London, moneyer sadly not visible. Large fragment.

Edited March 19 by Paddy
Error corrected

[Citizen H 75]

wow a coin from around 1066 time would be something to have even as a fragment, some of my collection is bits of coin.....many thanks for the share, cheers "H"     

[Sylvester 52]

Stunning coin, even being clipped. William I is another monarch I've yet to get. I get keep getting distracted by Stephen's!

[Rob 3,217]

I don't have a 2 stars penny yet. I'm waiting for one to appear from a scarce/rare mint that is still on my list of wants. I wanted Stewartby's Stafford, but fell a couple bids short. Nice coin that one.

If you want a William I, the cheapest option is a PAXS. Thanks to the discovery of 6500 or so at Beaworth in Hampshire in 1833, the previously rarest type was transformed into the commonest type overnight. 95 % of all PAXS pennies are from this hoard. See example below. A bit double struck on the obverse, but presentable.

Edited March 19 by Rob

[Sylvester 52]

I love Norman era coinage, this is one of my historical interests so no surprise really. It's always the danger of collecting coinage of this period in that you could pay thousands for an extremely rare type, for a hoard to then come along and crash the price irrevocably.

I will pick up the William I and II coins one day. I did get an Henry I some years ago, I can't remember what type it was. It's locked away. I would have more if I could actually specialise, but I've always been a more general collector, and I keep getting distracted!

I got a few Watford pennies though. The only one I have a photo of is below, and it's probably the least well struck of those I have.

 

[Sylvester 52]

Ironically, one if the prettiest hammered coins I managed to find was this Henry II short cross coin. I usually find most short cross coins a bit crude or poorly struck. This one caught my attention immediately. Sure it has a few flat areas on the high points, but it's a cracking looking coin in hand. The photos do it no justice.

 

[Paddy 1,861]

Yes, I have quite a decent Henry II Short cross too, and I believe Northampton mint, which makes it a bit more unusual:

[Sylvester 52]

That's a great looking specimen for sure! I think the earliest types are by far the best.

[Paddy 1,861]

Henry II Tealby coins are much more difficult to pick up in decent condition. I have this one, loosely identified as S1341 or S1342, moneyer and mint uncertain. If anyone can enlighten me further it would be much appreciated:

[Rob 3,217]

The mint reading NICOL for Lincoln as seen on other issues isn't recorded by Allen, so it's likely that the moneyer is NICOL(E), which would be supported by the initial cross at 6 o'clock. He is recorded as working at Gloucester, Ipswich and Norwich. For Gloucester, it isn't Allen 277, but could be 276 (not illustrated). For Ipswich, all the legends showing the end of the name terminate in an E, so given it looks like the stop of a colon after L, would eliminate Ipswich if the signature is consistent. Norwich could be 663 or 664, but the Allen image is flat in all the parts where yours is struck up and vice versa. It isn't Norwich 665-668

In summary, it looks like one of 3 possibilities. Allen 276 at Gloucester and Norwich 663 or 664. The first two are bust A1 and the last A2, but some detail would have been useful! Sorry, can't do better.

Edited Thursday at 11:50 AM by Rob
correction

[Paddy 1,861]

Wow, that's brilliant! Thank you.

I will make notes on the ticket.

 

[Rob 3,217]

3 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Wow, that's brilliant! Thank you.

I will make notes on the ticket.

 

Sorry, should be one of three, as I eliminated Allen 277.

[Sylvester 52]

3 hours ago, Paddy said:

Henry II Tealby coins are much more difficult to pick up in decent condition. I have this one, loosely identified as S1341 or S1342, moneyer and mint uncertain. If anyone can enlighten me further it would be much appreciated:

For a Tealby that's a very clear and well struck coin! They are about the worst produced English coins of all time.

[Sylvester 52]

I didn't know I had photos of these - a bit blurred, but the best I can do as I don't have the coins to hand.

 

[Sylvester 52]

[Rob 3,217]

2 hours ago, Sylvester said:

For a Tealby that's a very clear and well struck coin! They are about the worst produced English coins of all time.

I would beg to differ. The reverse is probably average for a Tealby, but the coin flipped in the strike and has a reverse cross on the obverse. No bust detail whatsoever is below par - even for a Tealby! You usually see at least something of the bust, even if you can't identify the type.

Edited Thursday at 04:30 PM by Rob

[Sylvester 52]

18 minutes ago, Rob said:

I would beg to differ. The reverse is probably average for a Tealby, but the coin flipped in the strike and has a reverse cross on the obverse. No bust detail whatsoever is below par - even for a Tealby! You usually see at least something of the bust, even if you can't identify the type.

I've certainly seen much worse Tealby pennies though!