Early 10p and 2p varieites.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Some of you may not be aware (Peck friend Mr D L F Sealy just informed me) that there are 2 slightly different early 10p and 2p types (i'm not sure what dates yet).

Apparently the dies were strengthened by adding lines on the tail and nose of the lion on the 10p, and extra lines on the feathers of the 2p. Thus, both variants exist for one (or more?) dates.

[kuhli 0]

There was also a change made to the reverse of the old, larger 5p, sometime between 1980 (type 1), and 1983 (type 2). If you look at the stalk of the thistle, there are 4 thorns (2 on each side). On the early type 1, the thorns are above the leaves, while on the later type 2, the thorns are below the leaves.

Of course, the 1981 is only available in proof sets, and the 1982 is only available in proof and mint sets, so it is gonna take me a little time to get those sets and see which types they have.

[kuhli 0]

TYPE 1

TYPE 2

[Sylvester 15]

This is before we get to the obverse changes. If anyone's ever noticed 1970s obverses are diffeent to 1980s obverses.

Take a 1971 2p and a 1980 2p. The hair changes.

[Sylvester 15]

Some of you may not be aware (Peck friend Mr D L F Sealy just informed me) that there are 2 slightly different early 10p and 2p types (i'm not sure what dates yet).

Apparently the dies were strengthened by adding lines on the tail and nose of the lion on the 10p, and extra lines on the feathers of the 2p. Thus, both variants exist for one (or more?) dates.

Is this just for the large 10ps? Or just the small or both?

[Chris Perkins 228]

For the early large 10p's.

I'm not too bothered about slow changes, but I am interested if 2 different coins exist for the same date.

[Sylvester 15]

For the early large 10p's.

I'm not too bothered about slow changes, but I am interested if 2 different coins exist for the same date.

I was thinking Chris perhaps the obverse changed during a year. Making a possible 4 varieties in a year.

Or maybe the older less defined hair obverses might turn up accidentally later on (like the 'New Pence' reverse did). It might be worth keeping an eye out for them. How can this be you say when the date is on the obverse? Maybe they could have wiped the date a redid it?

[Chris Perkins 228]

I don't think it's very likely that they reused old reverses after changing the dates on them. That happened in Victorian times, but I doubt quality control would have allowed it in the 70's/80's! But you never know, mistakes do happen.

[kuhli 0]

UPDATE:

From what I have found so far, the 2 different reverses of the large 5p switched with the change from "NEW" to "FIVE" after 1982. Thus, the TYPE 1 (pictured above) are on the 1968-1982 issues, with "NEW PENCE", and the TYPE 2 (pictured above) are on all issues from 1983-, with "FIVE PENCE".

I have also figured out (I think!) that the change in Machin portrait design occured late in 1977. All of my 1977 circulation issues have the older design, while everything from 1978-1984 have the "modified" design. But, my 1977 PROOF set has the "modified" design (perhaps the change was done after the circulation strikes were done, prior to the minting of the Proof sets??, or were the Proof sets struck at a later time, as has happened before??). Need to check a few more sets and do some further comparison to get these dates accurate. (BTW, besides the additional "cuts" in the hair, there were also modifications made to the folds in her collar, especially in the top layer, and on the 1p, the "pointings" are different) Still working of figuring out the variations on the reverse of the 2p and 10p, will work on those soon.

Another thing I have noticed, not that it really matters, probably, but the "pointings" on the small 5p with the Maklouf portrait (1990-1997) are distinctly different on the circulation issues, compared to those found in BU folders. This isn't a single year thing, I have circulation issues from 5 of the 8 years, and 3 of the BU folders. Eventually, as I collect more of the BU folders, I can get some better data to confirm this.