1862 penny with 1/2d numerals

[Guest Keven Fielder]

Hi - I have this 1862 penny with half-penny numerals - all of my coin books say it is extremely rare with no guide price. Does anyone know what sort of price I should sell this at?

[custard1966 1]

Hi Keven,

Price will depend, as always, on condition.

As a guide

I paid £470 for one in Fine condition last year

A very similar one went for £620 a few weeks before that (so I think I got a bargain).

There are probably only around 15-20 of these in existence and they're a 'well-known' variety and much sought after.

Bear in mind that if you sell to a dealer you'll only get around 2/3 of what he thinks he can sell it for and if you sell at auction or on E-bay you'll have to lose a percentage to them.

Still, it'll be worth a few bob

Hope this helps.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Some dealers pay full catalogue for rare coins if they know where they can sell it. Let's see a picture.

[Guest Keven Fielder]

I would like to attach photo but am having trouble on here. Can you advise on how to do it

[Chris Perkins 228]

You need to become a member first, then you can attach a file

[Guest Keven]

photos attached with an 1862 standard penny for comparison. Unfortunately the small date penny has scratched intials on it, which I understand people done with coins in thier collections!

Also can anyone verify that the 1/2d numeral pennies were minted for the Americas, Canada - as this penny was purchased in a Canadian shop while on holiday for a couple of dollars.

Many thanks for all your advice - a good, friendly forum

[Chris Perkins 228]

I wouldn't say they were halfpenny numerals my friend, probably just a different date punch/die or even just different amounts of wear. The actual halfpenny numerals are actually much smaller (from the illustration in Freeman).

[custard1966 1]

I'd have to agree with Chris.

I can't find a picture online and am not at home to check with my coin, but that looks like a set of worn standard numerals

[Guest Keven]

Thanks you for your comments. Please see the additional images provided. I have photographed an 1862 halfpenny and the penny in question together in one image for an in proportion comparison. As you will see the halfpenny date and the penny date are very similar in size. The main identifying differance is the number 2. I have checked the Freeman cataloque and found that the image of the halfpenny and the image of the penny have not been photographed at the same ratio, therefore the date of the halfpenny would look smaller even though this is not the fact.

Regards Keven

[Rob 3,238]

I'd say it was halfpenny numerals. If you check the ratio of the two heights, on my screen 12.1 to 10.7 and those on a real penny and halfpenny 2mm and marginally over 1.7mm, the two ratios are 1.13 and 1.17. Scanning in a couple of uncirculated examples of each denomination without changing any scanner parameters gave a ratio of 1.16. That's quite a close match and reasonably within the margin of error you could expect from different punches as the ratio varies by around 3%. If it was worn digits, you would need about a 15% reduction in size. Not impossible, but it favours the 1/2d digits. The only problem is that both sets of digits in the picture are worn

[custard1966 1]

I'm going to correct myself: comparing with my own coin, I'm now happy that that's the 1/2 penny numerals.

It's harder to see on the first set of pics posted, but the second set is conclusive.

The real clue (apart from the size) is the tilt to the 2.

[Chris Perkins 228]

No wonder it's so bloody rare if it's that difficult to spot!

[Gary 7]

Hello,

Here are two 1862 Pennies from my collection . I think it is quite clear from the scan that the top penny is the 1862 small date. If you look at the gap between the exergue and the top of the date numerals there is a distinct gap on the small date penny where as on the normal penny the numerals are almost in contact with the exergue.

We know that the Dies were cut in advance and that only the first 3 digits were originally cut with the last digit being added as and when they were required which explains why so many 1861 and 1862 pennies have the last digit misaligned. As we can see here, this was also the case for the small date penny as the 2 is spaced further from the 8 and is also slightly rotated, anticlockwise. Does this suggest that there was more than one 1862 small date die? Probably not due to the rarity of this coin in any grade.

My example is graded as Fair but the difference can still clearly be seen. So even a worn example can still be easily identified.

Happy Hunting

Gary

[Gary 7]

Just a quick one. This coin was purchased as an 1862 small date, many years ago from a coin dealer "Marron Coins" Here is a scan of the whole coin. If it is estimated that only 15 of these pennies exist, only 13 more need to be located

[Emperor Oli 0]

Hehe it's up on eBay now

[Gary 7]

Starting price £199 and no takers. Will he relist at a lower price?