Somebody help me research these Condor tokens!?

[Chris Perkins 228]

Hello everyone,

Now I know there is at least one of you with a condor token reference book, and i'd like to know what would be fair prices for these coins if I featured them on the site in the for sale section?

Feel free to point me in the direction of any you have seen online, and pictures of mine are available on request.

These are just sitting around, most are low grade, a couple are very nice and i'd like to shift them.

The list:

1: Exeter Halfpenny 1792.

Rev has coat of arms, obv shows Bishop with legend ‘SUCCESS TO THE WOOLEN MANUFACTORY’. ‘PAYABLE AT THE WAREHOUSE OF SAMUEL KINGDON’ on edge. Two M’s stamped on either side of the Bishop. Condition: Good, maybe NF at a push.

2: Kent Halfpenny Token 1794

Coat of arms and date on one side, another coat of arms with ‘SUSSEX’ under it and the legend ‘FOR CHANGE NOT FRAUD’ Edge Legend looks like ‘GIBBS SUSSEX PAYABLE BY’. Condition: Easily Fine perhaps even NVF.

3: Sheffield Penny Token 1815 (Have 2 of them)

Standing figure on obv with ‘SHEFFIELD PENNY TOKEN’. Rev has legend ‘OVERSEERS OF THE POOR’ around an image of a building/house. Edge diagonally milled in centre like Soho issues. Condition: around Good/fair.

4: Liverpool Halfpenny 1791

Ship on obv with coat of arms on rev and latin legend which is not readable. Edge milled. Condition: Poor.

5: Monmouth Halfpenny 1795

‘JAMES POWELL IMPORTER’ and 1795 on obv. Picture of a barrel in centre. Rev legend ‘J POWELL WINE & BRANDY MERCHANT MONMOUTH’ with grape picture. Edge says ‘PAYABLE AT MONMOUTH AND ABERGAVENNY’. Condition: As struck, no wear with a lacquered appearance.

6: Flint Lead works 1813 (Penny)

Obv legend ‘FLINT LEAD WORKS’ and date, with image of the lead works. Rev has ‘ONE PENNY TOKEN’ in centre surrounded by ‘ONE POUND NOTE FOR 240 TOKENS’. Edge milled. Condition: Good/fair.

7: The Anglesey mines Halfpenny 1788

Parys miners company insignia on obv, druid on rev with wreath. Edge legend ‘PAYABLE AT ANGLESEY LONDON OR LIVERPOOL’. Condition: Good with scratches.

8: The Anglesey mines Halfpenny 1791 (Have 2 of them)

As above but dated 1791 and edge reads ‘PAYABLE AT ANGLESEY OR LONDON’. Coin seems thicker. Condition: Good, perhaps better, but not the best dies used.

9: Hull Halfpenny 1791

Coat of arms, date, wreath, legend on obv. Rev has figure on horseback with legend ‘GULIELMUS TERTIUS REX’ (obviously a reference to William III) and a date MDCLXXXIX (1689 I think). Edge ‘PAYABLE AT THE WAREHOUSE ??????? GARTON’. Conditon: Good /fair.

10: Manchester Halfpenny 1793

Man carrying something on his back on obv. Rev has coat of arms and legend ‘SUCCESS TO NAVIGATION’. Edge is chevron milled. Condition: EF-UNC with much lustre.

11: Birmingham and Swansea halfpenny 1811

Quite plain with ‘ROSE COPPER COMPANY’ and diagonally milled edge. Condition: all readable struck with rubbish die, Good.

12: Bristol and South Wales Penny token 1811

Prince of Wales plume on obv. Rev shows a castle and ‘VIRTUTE ET INDUSTRIA’ Edge diagonal milled. Condition F-VF.

13: Birmingham One penny 1813

Picture of building on Rev. Coat of arms with ‘ONE POUND NOTE FOR 240 TOKENS’ and ‘PAYABLE AT THE WORKHOUSE’ on the rev. Edge diagonal centre milled. Condition: Good.

14: Edinburgh Halfpenny 1791

Coat of arms featuring castle on obv. Rev has ‘NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSIT’ (as pound coin) with thistles and someone holding a large St Andrews cross. Edge says ‘PAYABLE AT THE WAREHOUSE OF THOs & ALEXr HUTCHISON’. Condition: around Fine.

15: Edinburgh Halfpenny 1792

Exactly as above but dated 1792.

More to follow, depending how successful this is.

Thanks,

Chris

[Guest mish]

Sorry it's taken me some time to reply to this one, and I'm afraid I can't be of much help anyway. I've tried looking up your 18th century tokens in Dalton & Hamer's Provincial Token Coinage of the 18th Century and your 19th century tokens in W. J. Davis's Nineteenth Century Token Coinage. Both books are identification guides to the subject and do not therefore give any valuations. They do however note if a token is rare, which may give some guide to value. The problem is that many varieties of each token were issued, some rare and some common. The differences in these varieties are frequently minor, e.g. certain letters of a legend on one variety may be placed a millimetre or two to the left or right of those on another variety. As you can imagine, your tokens would require careful study to ascertain exactly which variety they were.

As far as selling them is concerned, low grade tokens seem to turn up regularly for single figure prices on various coin lists, though the higher grade stuff naturally commands a higher figure. On the bright side, interest in local history seems to be on the upturn at the moment with an increasing number of history programmes appearing on the television and many local museums becoming more user friendly. Perhaps interest in tokens will grow as well.

After all that, I realise I've actually told you very little. Apologies again.

[Chris Perkins 228]

No that's ok, that is a big help.

I'd also noticed that the low grade ones tend to sell for £2-5, the better ones around £20.00, and UNC examples £50-70.

So when I get around to it, I'll price them accordingly.

Thanks,

[mint_mark 9]

Chris,

When I want to find out about Conders I go to http://www.abccoinsandtokens.com/ (click on Coin Index)

I know it's another dealer, but he takes good pictures and includes lots of extra information in the descriptions. I have learned loads just by looking at his ebay aucitons.

Apologies if it's bad taste to refer to a competitor, but it is a good reference source and should be a pricing guide for you too!

Hope it helps...

[Chris Perkins 228]

Thanks,

That dealer appears to basically be an ebay seller with a web page or 2, and they seem to specialise in tokens, which is great. Thanks.

[mint_mark 9]

That's basically it. What I forgot to say before was that I could recognise many of the designs in your descriptions just from what I have picked up from David Stuart's ebay listings over a couple of years.

For example, your number 4 is the arms and motto of Liverpool (a cormorant with seaweed in its beak). I bought one of these for a friend once. The milled edge might be a variety... usually it is inscribed with "payable at... somewhere I can't remember".

Your number 7 is a common type, but the Anglesey mines issued the first Conder tokens that kicked the whole thing off. Whether this is that first type or not I don't know... they issued more later. 1788 is early...

Conder btw was a contemporary collector of these and wrote the first reference book... but he also issued his own tokens too... there's one for sale on that site.

Number 10 I recognise... I think he's a cotton porter. Nos 14 and 15 is in fact supposed to be St Andrew on his cross! This one also comes with a Neptune sea god reverse.

Anyway, that's just from memory... if you watch the site and listings enough you should see them all go past in due course!

I look forward to the tokens section on predecimal.com!

[william 0]

So do I!

[mint_mark 9]

Well, Chris' number 14 (Edinburgh 1791) is currently ebay auction 3903440563... similar grade too I imagine.

[Chris Perkins 228]

Thanks, mine's a bit better too, from memory.