Toning

[Guest Daverl]

Hi all,

My first post, so here goes. What is and causes toning?

Is it just grime, chemical reaction to moisture - air or natural discolouration of the metals.

The reason I ask is that some coins I have are discoloured/dirty and I have been experimenting on some of the "doubles" I own with a cleaning agent. This is non-abrasive and only requires washing off with water (very gently).

As I am new to coin collecting and know that everyone advises against cleaning of any sort I thought I would get your thoughts on this. So far I have cleaned a couple of brass threepences, one was UNC and the other had traces of verdi gris on, the other coins cleaned were silver threepences. No ill effect appears to have come to the coins. The silver ones although now clean have not "polished up" and look natural. The brass ones also appear to have no adverse affects, obviously the one that was green now has pits where the verdis gris has eaten into the metal but, that was expected. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Dave

[Sylvester 15]

Toning is a number of things as you indicate.

Firstly most metals will oxidise or react with the atmosphere eventually, silver darkens and goes grey (or tarnishes and goes all colourful).

Copper likewise loses the reddish/orange shine and goes brown. Toning is basically the natural aging of metals in their atmosphere.

Some toning is highly desirable, other types of toning are avoided like the plague, it's all a matter of taste. Some US collectors pay high premiums for tarnished silver coins, UK collectors will pay more for a subtle blue or nice grey toned silver coin. Generally we like coins to look their age.

As for cleaning coins in the method you describe whilst the cleaning will not show scratches and such the lustre of the coin will be impaired. Especially on the UNC coin. Lustre and shine are not the same. Shine is a glossy almost flat satin kind of shine, lustre is a three dimensional shine with depth. Light reflected from a coin with natural lustre will be brighter in places and have richer colour in other areas. If you've ever seen a bright shiney new silver coin with a 'cartwheel type' shine of brilliance then that's the ultimate in lustre. It's bright

If you drop a new penny under water for a few weeks and look at it later, it might still have the same kind of colour but the lustre will be flatter, less mirrorlike.

Hard to explain i know.

Coins with verdigris should be cleaned, if you don't it'll only get worse.

[Guest Guest]

"Coins with verdigris should be cleaned, if you don't it'll only get worse"

Is there a prefered way to treat such a coin, apart from binning it and getting a better one.

And Darerl, what cleaner have you tried.

Regards gary

[Sylvester 15]

Good question, and one i don't have an answer for! Acetone perhaps?

[Emperor Oli 0]

Acetone perhaps?

That seems to be what most Americans chuck coins into when something is amiss.

[Sylvester 15]

Olive Oil works for removing verdigris but it culd take a couple of months.

[burpalot 0]

is verdigris that green stuff on coins

[Rob 3,152]

is verdigris that green stuff on coins

Yes

[Peter 615]

Yes...and if any of your coins develop it you are not storing them correctly.(probably damp conditions ie loft,garden shed etc)

Remove affected coins immediately as it will spread.

[Rob 3,152]

Yes...and if any of your coins develop it you are not storing them correctly.(probably damp conditions ie loft,garden shed etc)

Remove affected coins immediately as it will spread.

It isn't mobile as such, it's just oxidation of the copper as a result of a humid atmosphere and will affect all copper similarly. Different rates of oxidation between coins are probably down to variations in surface contamination in the toning/crud/whatever is on the surface. Just make sure the collection is kept in a dry and preferably constant temperature environment as this will ensure no condensation can occur on the coins which will enhance oxidation.

[burpalot 0]

so will it spread if the coin or coins are seperate from each other and

are kept in a warm place

BURPALOT

[Rob 3,152]

so will it spread if the coin or coins are seperate from each other and

are kept in a warm place

BURPALOT

No. It can't migrate from one coin to another because it isn't alive. The first coin to suffer does so because the storage conditions aren't ideal and it is the least protected for what ever reason be it surface deposit or in an area of the cabinet with a greater temperature differential. The root cause is the environment the coins are stored in.

[burpalot 0]

ok cheers

BURPALOT

[Guest Daverl]

"Coins with verdigris should be cleaned, if you don't it'll only get worse"

Is there a prefered way to treat such a coin, apart from binning it and getting a better one.

And Darerl, what cleaner have you tried.

Regards gary

gary,

Sorry about the delay answering your question. The stuff I used was "Gunk", it is actually a degreaser usually used for engine cleaning. As I said it does not appear to have had any adverse affects on the coins, although it did on my skin.

Sylvester,

Thanks for the reply, although new to coin collecting I do understand the importance and meaning of Lustre as opposed to "shine".

As an avid Koi keeper most people think I'm "off my rocker" when I get excited about the difference between 2 fish, when all they can see are 2 orange and white fish that shine, but Lustre goes way deeper than just the surface. Same things with coins.

Thanks

Dave

[Gary D 76]

I'm sure I've got some gunk somewere Something I've tried on silver is a product used in the electronics industry called aquaclean which is a foam cleaner. It seems to clean with out inducing a shine as no rubbing is required. Although nothing looks worst than a very worn coin that is clean because worn coin should not look too clean.

[Guest Daverl]

I'm sure I've got some gunk somewere   Something I've tried on silver is a product used in the electronics industry called aquaclean which is a foam cleaner. It seems to clean with out inducing a shine as no rubbing is required. Although nothing looks worst than a very worn coin that is clean because worn coin should not look too clean.

Gary,

I agree that a worn coin looking polished is abnormal but, as I said in the first post the ones I cleaned have not polished up. Gunk is a degreaser so, all it appears to have done is remove the grease. All I did was immerse the coins in it, leave for varying amounts of time per coin to see if longer was better. Then rinsed them with water and left by a source of heat to dry, no rubbing involved. It was meant as a try out and, I suppose if I was a purist I could have rinsed them in distilled water so no minerals or salts introduced.

Dave