Artificial toning thread on CU

[wybrit 2]

I am posting a link to a CU thread (albeit one about US Coins) that shows how even a coin in a slab can be altered. It is a very sobering bit of detective work done by the folks over there. It's a good education for those new to numismatics and reinforcement for the slab critics. Enjoy!

[Emperor Oli 0]

So even PCGS slabs are fallible. 18 pages on that topic in a matter of hours just shows how much of a stink this has kicked up.

What does that make them now besides glorified capsules? We now know that coins can be AT'ed whilst in them, counterfeits have been slabbed, and grading is often dodgy (as we saw in that MS65 Morgan thread I think someone posted a few days ago). People will still pay ludicrous money for them though.

[Rob 3,152]

I am posting a link to a CU thread (albeit one about US Coins) that shows how even a coin in a slab can be altered. It is a very sobering bit of detective work done by the folks over there. It's a good education for those new to numismatics and reinforcement for the slab critics. Enjoy!

Good to see that eyes have been opened in the US. IMO, dipped or AT'd coins have been slabbed for quite a long time. I suspect the overpowering attraction of filthy lucre has something to do with it.

[Emperor Oli 0]

Just as a post-script to the CU thread, it seems the seller in question fabricated his whole story.

[Rob 3,152]

Just as a post-script to the CU thread, it seems the seller in question fabricated his whole story.

Funny how offenders are so apologetic once the story and subsequent cover-up has been exposed. More bizarrely, I'm not sure why so many people are willing to accept the apology in an attempt to rehabilitate as any offenders tend to be serial ones, and leopards don't change their spots. Past evidence of underhand activities suggests that the problem will resurface under another id.

[Rob 3,152]

Although not strictly following the original line of this thread, here is an example of a dipped coin slabbed. It is difficult to see how a coin can be artificially detoned whilst in the slab, so one must assume that it was in this condition prior to slabbing. The links are the toning spots to the reverse together with the weakness on the obverse and reverse where the flan is thinner and so not completely struck up. The picture from Spink auction 4 lot 862, described as toned, extremely fine is the same coin as Goldberg 3359 21/9/05 (slabbed NGC MS63 1875720-009). The toning seen in the Goldberg picture is much deeper than when seen in the flesh. 1720 shilling. I can't add a scan of the piece in question as there is only 13k of space left for attachments but can supply to anyone interested.

It also highlights the irrelevance of the grades assigned.

[wybrit 2]

More bizarrely, I'm not sure why so many people are willing to accept the apology in an attempt to rehabilitate as any offenders tend to be serial ones, and leopards don't change their spots.

(Sound of nail being hit on the head).

Edited August 29, 2006 by wybrit

[Chris Perkins 228]

Reading all that gushy 'appology accepted, oh what a gentleman' flanel after the offenders appology makes me wonder if the whole coin world has gone far too PC (It's no wonder Bush got re-elected, do Americans always believe everything they're told??).

String him up by his danglies, if someone wants to accidentally rainbow tone a coin and then re-sell it it's too late to appologise. Ban him from the CU forum, get him kicked off eBay, deposit him in Siberia!

[Coppers 58]

The fellow who got caught is likely just the tip of the iceberg. When American collectors are willing to shell out many multiples of a coin's value just because it has great colouring or toning, it only invites this sort of thing.

[Peter 615]

This is a thread on silicon enhanced breasts isn't it?

If it isn't it should be...same applies.

[TomGoodheart 402]

Bloody hell! What a can of worms!! Entertaining but depressing. Wasn't there something similar with tulips in 17C Holland??

Peter Posted Aug 29 2006, 08:25 PM

This is a thread on silicon enhanced breasts isn't it?

Coppers Posted Aug 29 2006, 02:46 PM

... just the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah... I think so

[Emperor Oli 0]

Wasn't there something similar with tulips in 17C Holland??

I read a book about that a few months ago. Semper Augustus was the most valuable bulb which sold for about 10,000 Dutch Guilders, the annual wage of about seventy low skilled workers.

[TomGoodheart 402]

Exactly my point Oli. People are getting carried away here. Since there are so many MS67 coins out there the only way to make a premium is to find something extra. Unfortunately as soon as someone is prepared to pay extra for a splash of colour then there's bound to be somebody else who will be willing to supply! I'm just sorry it has gone to such extremes someone's reputation is all shot and presumably there are people out there who feel they have been burnt..

Thing is, although I am having to suppress my serves-them-right smugness, I do worry that what catches on over the pond eventually makes it over here. Now I know slabbing isn't real big, but it can be found. I also know there are a few of you with a soft spot for some colour (though hopefully it falls short of those coins with all the colour and charm of a Christmas cracker!)

I just hope that common sense wins out. In the meantime I am collecting up all the MS68 5p and 10p pieces I can find. Now, where did I put my old air brush....

[Rob 3,152]

I also know there are a few of you with a soft spot for some colour (though hopefully it falls short of those coins with all the colour and charm of a Christmas cracker!)

Colour is obtained naturally by exposure to the atmosphere. If you can't accept and appreciate some colour due to natural processes, then you are restricted to buying older coins that have been dipped (otherwise known as artificial de-toning) or alternatively pieces that have been hermetically sealed for a couple hundred years such as my 1731 shilling in the unconfirmed varieties section. Although not guaranteed, a touch of colour may enhance the beauty in my opinion but any person responsible for a Jackson Pollock style coin should be shot.

[TomGoodheart 402]

Oh, I wasn't knocking a bit of toning Rob - I think ideally a 200 year old coin should look like it's been around that long, but this sort of thing.....?

.....Nice...... not

Edited August 31, 2006 by TomGoodheart

[Rob 3,152]

Oh, I wasn't knocking a bit of toning Rob - I think ideally a 200 year old coin should look like it's been around that long, but this sort of thing.....?

.....Nice...... not

A new range of confectionery from Rowntrees perhaps. I like the sky blue ones best, they taste delicious.

[Peter 615]

Oh, I wasn't knocking a bit of toning Rob - I think ideally a 200 year old coin should look like it's been around that long, but this sort of thing.....?

.....Nice...... not

Those cents are so false they are obscene....I'm afraid given the oportunity...out would come the "Brasso"

[TomGoodheart 402]

AAAARgH!!! Puleeeze let these photos be retouched!!!

I don't mind if they keep Artificial Toning over there, but if not, my view on 'Americans' (ie not Wybrit or anyone else on this forum!) is going to be like my view on dogs. I don't mind them at a distance, but when they start sh***ing on my lawn.....

aaak! gonna p*ke....

[TomGoodheart 402]

OK .. I apologise. I did get a bit upset there. I have now had a chance to reconsider and think maybe a bit of 'toning' can be an asset.

Like here....

A very nice improvement brought about by, admittedly artificially, toning gently with a blowtorch..

And here...

Nice 'rainbow' (or perhaps 'rain forest'?) toning through loving and careful storage.

Don't know how I could have been so wrong about all this... I just hope everyone can forgive me.... (hmm, doesn't that remind you of the beginning of this thread somehow...?)