Another naff ebay policy decision!

[TomGoodheart 402]

Those who use ebay may be interested to know that a recent decision means that on items where bidding has reached £100 the bidders IDs will now disappear. They will be replaced with anonymous IDs such as Bidder1 etc.

For those of us who use the bidding history for items as a check for sellers who seem to have an excessive number of non-winning bids from the same people (shill bidding) this seems a terrible idea. If anyone else agrees please post on the ebay Q&A Board **Safeguarding Member IDs Workshop 24/11/06 2-3pm**

For the policy itself please see Cr*p decision

Surely the only safeguarding will be for shill bidders who will now run riot on ebay!

Not that ebay will take the blindest bit of notice. But I feel a bit better for getting it off my chest.

Richard

On second thoughts I take it ALL back - I've just remembered my wife has an ebay account - expect to see lots of my really expensive coins listed soon!!!

Edited November 22, 2006 by TomGoodheart

[Chris Perkins 228]

It does sound like a rubbish idea and an encouragement for shill bidders.

What they are obviously trying to do is stop the Chinese (usually) people from sending fake emails to people offering them expensive things that they were the underbidder on. Every time I list one of my hundreds of 1934 wreath crowns and it sells....I get reported to me from the underbidders that they were emailed to say the item would be offered to them at the price they bid and that all they need to do is email the 'seller' at a free provider email account and then send them loads of money!

[TomGoodheart 402]

Yes. If ebay were less interested in money and more interested in 'security' it could just get rid of the 'Second Chance Offer'. If sellers were then required to relist items and everyone was told this quite clearly these 'offers' would surely die out.

Unfortunately this isn't in ebay's interests. Shill bidding increases the final bid and therefore the fees ebay receives for the listing. I see this now that the three shill bidders I reported have been 'dis-membered' from ebay but the seller who received the shill bids continues to sell. With a 'feedback' of over 2000, why did I expect anything else...

[Hussulo 6]

I totally agree with you Tom, but you know what bothers me about ebay most? It is the fact that sellers do not have to leave feedback first. In my view when a buyer pays for their item they have for filed their part of the transaction and should then be left feedback. Most dodgy sellers hold their feedback back and I believe buyers are then scarred to leave negative feedback for these sellers incase they get a negative back. That is why you have so many scam artists on 100% feedback

[Chris Perkins 228]

As a seller that sells quite a few things I find it sensible to do feedback weekly. I used to leave feedback after the customer had paid, as you're right, they've done their bit, all I have to do is my bit.

But, there are so many uncommunicative morons out there that don't read the description properly and don't even query with you before they simply leave negative feedback. Most recently this has happened with people that have bought an e-Book and were waiting for a printed book. On my most recent neg (user id: chrisperkins) the buyer emailed asking where the book was. I told them I had emailed the link weeks ago, and repeated the link. I also said that if they were expecting the printed version, that they could upgrade and get that too (for about £2.50!).

They didn't reply...I simply got a neg saying I was a con! If you look at my ebook listings, I have been very careful to mention on a number of occasions that the product is a digital ebook. I have hundreds of satisfied customers that can read, but still I get twits like the last chap leaving negative purely because they're illigitimate illiterates!

So, I save my feedback, just in case that happens, in which case I can leave the a throughly deserved neg in return for being a complete plonker.

[Hussulo 6]

I agree with you Chris. Which brings me to my ultimate point that the feedback system does not work correctly. If in your listing you have stated it is an e-book which you obviously have, and you then receive a negative feedback, eBay should then remove this negative feedback since it is not your fault. People should not be allowed to use a negative feedback where it is not due! I guess it would mean too much work for eBay to check queries, but they should! As I understand it once a feedback is left it can't be removed or changed. Only mutually withdrawn, but the comments are still left for people to see.

So you get a system which really doesn't work properly, where people are scarred to leave the truth! or they leave bad feedback out of spite, or because they didn't read the listing correctly.

[Colin G. 147]

I must admit I always try to leave feedback once the buyer has paid, but there are circumstances when I do not, and that is when as you say communication is poor from the offset.

I think a sweeping statement of saying the buyer has fulfilled their duties once paid is not strictly true. Buyers can still have other areas of the "transaction" where they as a "buyer" can create problems for example as Chris stated where they do not read terms and conditions then blame you as the seller, and in my opinion this is still part of the transaction and when feedback is left immediately after payment, the opportunity to inform other sellers is lost.

I will continue to issue feedback first and hope that with my service levels and through communication I can resolve most issues, but you can never protect yourself against that species the "ebay moron"

I have had the pleasure of meeting one or two over the past few years!!!

Thanks

Colin G.

[Chris Perkins 228]

I just got another bloody neg from a new Ebayer!! That's another thing that annoys me....When you email in reply to an ebay message (not the 'Use The Yellow button type') they often don't get through to the buyers. I suspect because most spam filters see them as spam.

[RLC35 288]

Those who use ebay may be interested to know that a recent decision means that on items where bidding has reached £100 the bidders IDs will now disappear. They will be replaced with anonymous IDs such as Bidder1 etc.

For those of us who use the bidding history for items as a check for sellers who seem to have an excessive number of non-winning bids from the same people (shill bidding) this seems a terrible idea. If anyone else agrees please post on the ebay Q&A Board **Safeguarding Member IDs Workshop 24/11/06 2-3pm**

For the policy itself please see Cr*p decision

Surely the only safeguarding will be for shill bidders who will now run riot on ebay!

Not that ebay will take the blindest bit of notice. But I feel a bit better for getting it off my chest.

Richard

Hi Richard, I think the new Bidder 1, Bidder 2, etc. ID may be only eBay.uk. I have checked many eBay.US offerings, and found that feature is not being used. They are still using the regular screen ID, as they always have. The only exception are coins advertised from the UK, but are offered worlwide. Those coins have the new Bidder id system.

I don't have a clue as to why the differant eBay's (differant countries) would have a differant ID system.

Bob C.

On second thoughts I take it ALL back - I've just remembered my wife has an ebay account - expect to see lots of my really expensive coins listed soon!!!

[Geordie582 18]

Feedback from sellers may be withheld for a ligitimate reason , but some NEVER send feedback. Luckily it doesn't seem t affect the standard of the buyer, but annoying nevertheless.

[TomGoodheart 402]

Hi RCL35. Indeed the decision only applies to ebayUK and to 'motors' listings in the US. I understand it will also apply in Australia and a few other places.

So unless you bid over £100 (? US$) on an automobile (as I understand you quaintly call them over there) the bidder1 etc won't appear.

Oh, and shill bidding is apparently illegal in the States, but not in Europe. Perhaps it isn't therefore a problem there? Possibly that's why there are different policies...

Edited November 24, 2006 by TomGoodheart

[DaveG38 405]

I have both bought and sold on ebay, and my overall view is that most feedback is genuine and honest - I have only one negative, several years ago, and this only arose because I gave him negative in the first place. However, I have watched with interest the debate about ebay and its merits (or otherwise). One aspect not mentioned is that their software doesn't always work properly, and this leads to the situation where a buyer or seller can't leave feedback. I have two items in this situation at the moment. Both are paid for, yet there is no way (unless I have missed it) to get beyond the flags shown on my summary. This, of course, does a disservice to the buyers, who can't receive the feedback, and to me as the seller as I always like to respond when sales or purchases take place. One thing I do agree on is that ebay aren't interested in sorting the problem - a common theme from many users as far as I can see.

DaveG38

[TomGoodheart 402]

The workshop on ebay effectively explained that the underlying problem was bidders receiving fraudulent Second Chance Offers. Many (presumably) responded to these, losing money.

While I can see it's a problem I still remain to be convinced that ebay's policy change is the correct way to address this.

But maybe it's because I'm intensely irritated by shill bids whereas (so far) I have't been caught by a scam.

As for feedback - I think it's right - most of us are tempted to wait and see what the other person says before posting. I have only posted less than positive feedback once and that was to a buyer who waited three weeks to pay and never contacted me in the meantime. I guess therefore I'm as guilty as anyone else....

[Gary 7]

Most dodgy sellers hold their feedback back and I believe buyers are then scarred to leave negative feedback for these sellers incase they get a negative back. That is why you have so many scam artists on 100% feedback

I´m sorry Hussulo but I totally disagree with you here. I have a 100% Feedback with over 600 unique sellers/buyers and I see absolutly no problem with with holding back my feedback after I have sold something. Firstly if the buyer has paid for the item then he has no reason to be afraid of recieving Neg feedback! Secondly, when feedback is left for me, I then have confirmation that the item has been recieved and then and only then is the transaction completed. Things can go wrong, lost in the post and all that, it happens. For this reason I only post feedback after a buyer has posted thiers, if something does go wrong then the Buyer is more likely to contact me before posting Neg feedback. The other way around, if I have bought something then I leave feedback after recieving it, regardless of wether the seller has already done so or not.

In my opinion, like Chris said earlier, its a question of communications, if the comms are good then usualy there is no problem, whatever happens. I have had deals where problems have occured but due to good comms they have been sorted without resorting to Neg Feedback.

The problem with comms as I see it is a problem that has only occured since the introduction of the ebay checkout system and the fact that most E-Mil providers, programms now use Spam filters. Firstly the Ebay checkout system reduces the communications (direct via E-Mail) and the spam filters filter out mails that should get through. The inexperienced user, more often than not, does not understand the workings off the spam filter and does not realise that they have to look in the spam folder to check that good e-mails are not being classed as spam and to tell the spam filter that this address is not spam.

When I started on ebay you had to write directly to the email address given by the seller or buyer and in this way had direct comms as the person knew to expect an Email from you.

Communcations is the Key.

Cheers, Gary.

[Hussulo 6]

You have got a point Gary,

Maybe it was a bit of a sweeping statement to make. I to have 100% positive for over 120 transactions so I am not complaining as such just noting my views.

The people my comment is more aimed at are the sellers who are selling obvious fake coins, antiquities etc.. Many keeping the bidder id's private, yet for most have 100's of transactions, and they are still sitting at 100% positive feedback.

Now if you are new to eBay or coin collecting you might believe looking at their feedback that they are a good seller selling genuine goods, but you would be mistaken.

The way I see it they are still at a 100% positive feedback either because they have mentioned that the item is fake in the small print, or because people don't realize what they have bought is fake.

The other alternative being after trying to communicate with them to no avail the purchaser "decides to bite the bullet" and leave a positive because they are scarred to leave a negative incase they get one back.