1860 Weyl Pattern Penny in Tin

[Rob 3,228]

A pattern penny attributed to Adolf Weyl at the end of the 1800's. Struck in Tin, this metal wasn't recorded by either Peck or Freeman. Ex-Adams lot 192 with a milled edge, this was described as being in aluminium but the weight being over x3 too heavy for this metal led me to analyse the content. Interestingly, there is no added zinc to act as a scavenger thus preventing oxidation as s normally the case with tin. These pieces were made in sets of three; penny, halfpenny and farthing and the other two piece I can confirm exist because I have them. This piece illustrated was pictured, erroneously stated in Wilson & Rasmussen to be aluminium and is illustrated there on page 445. The only known P2141 is in the BM and confirmed from the same dies.

The following lot in the Adams sale (193) was the plain edge version also in tin and confirmed by analysis.

The 1887 dated pieces by Weyl also exist in tin in both milled and plain edge varieties. The two Nicholson "aluminium" examples (lots 388 & 389) are the halfpennies from these sets. The Colin Cooke sale lot 173 was the milled edge 1860 farthing. Thus there are a total of 15 confirmed new varieties including the 3 date 1887 pieces struck in lead. The other 6 pieces not confirmed by me and making up the corresponding sets can be presumed to exist.

The obverse:

And reverse:

Edited December 1, 2006 by Rob

[TomGoodheart 444]

A pretty penny! (Which is no doubt what it cost you too!) Congratulations Rob. A perfect example of dedicated numismatic perseverance and study!

[Hussulo 6]

Great coin Rob, you have an collection of coins most of us could only dream of.

[scottishmoney 51]

Love that bottom shield with the elephant(India?), Walrus(Africa?) and the 'Roo(Australia) representing the Empire.

[Rob 3,228]

Love that bottom shield with the elephant(India?), Walrus(Africa?) and the 'Roo(Australia) representing the Empire.

I think the seal is supposed to be Canada

[marvinfinnley 4]

A pattern penny attributed to Adolf Weyl at the end of the 1800's. Struck in Tin, this metal wasn't recorded by either Peck or Freeman. Ex-Adams lot 192 with a milled edge, this was described as being in aluminium but the weight being over x3 too heavy for this metal led me to analyse the content. Interestingly, there is no added zinc to act as a scavenger thus preventing oxidation as s normally the case with tin. These pieces were made in sets of three; penny, halfpenny and farthing and the other two piece I can confirm exist because I have them. This piece illustrated was pictured, erroneously stated in Wilson & Rasmussen to be aluminium and is illustrated there on page 445. The only known P2141 is in the BM and confirmed from the same dies.

The following lot in the Adams sale (193) was the plain edge version also in tin and confirmed by analysis.

The 1887 dated pieces by Weyl also exist in tin in both milled and plain edge varieties. The two Nicholson "aluminium" examples (lots 388 & 389) are the halfpennies from these sets. The Colin Cooke sale lot 173 was the milled edge 1860 farthing. Thus there are a total of 15 confirmed new varieties including the 3 date 1887 pieces struck in lead. The other 6 pieces not confirmed by me and making up the corresponding sets can be presumed to exist.

The obverse:

And reverse:

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

[Rob 3,228]

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

Where did you get it?

[marvinfinnley 4]

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

Where did you get it?

Goldberg's Terner Sale of May, 2003. Hardly seems possible it was eight years ago.

Marv

[Peckris 579]

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

Where did you get it?

Goldberg's Terner Sale of May, 2003. Hardly seems possible it was eight years ago.

Marv

..or that your reply took 4 and a half years

[Peter 615]

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

Where did you get it?

Goldberg's Terner Sale of May, 2003. Hardly seems possible it was eight years ago.

Marv

Is this a record...a reply to a thread 4 1/2 years on

[Rob 3,228]

Let's have another reply then - we're on a roll.

I would like to place on record my thanks for Marvin's contribution to my Weyl pattern article which has been accepted for the next BNJ. Fingers crossed the printers or the editor don't screw up.

[azda 983]

Great coin Rob, you have an collection of coins most of us could only dream of.

And obviously a bank account to match the dreams Any chance you could adopt me Rob?I'd like to also place on record that i'm Robs love child and lay any claim to his collection

Edited July 19, 2011 by azda

[Peter 615]

Great coin Rob, you have an collection of coins most of us could only dream of.

And obviously a bank account to match the dreams Any chance you could adopt me Rob?I'd like to also place on record that i'm Robs love child and lay any claim to his collection

Got some news for you.Your real parents are Martin & Tracey from the West country who sold you for a shilling (Thomas Hardy Mayor of Casterbridge like) to the Wier family from Ayrshire...hang on.

[azda 983]

Great coin Rob, you have an collection of coins most of us could only dream of.

And obviously a bank account to match the dreams Any chance you could adopt me Rob?I'd like to also place on record that i'm Robs love child and lay any claim to his collection

Got some news for you.Your real parents are Martin & Tracey from the West country who sold you for a shilling (Thomas Hardy Mayor of Casterbridge like) to the Wier family from Ayrshire...hang on.

:lol: :lol: :blink: :blink:

[1887jubilee 37]

A pattern penny attributed to Adolf Weyl at the end of the 1800's. Struck in Tin, this metal wasn't recorded by either Peck or Freeman. Ex-Adams lot 192 with a milled edge, this was described as being in aluminium but the weight being over x3 too heavy for this metal led me to analyse the content. Interestingly, there is no added zinc to act as a scavenger thus preventing oxidation as s normally the case with tin. These pieces were made in sets of three; penny, halfpenny and farthing and the other two piece I can confirm exist because I have them. This piece illustrated was pictured, erroneously stated in Wilson & Rasmussen to be aluminium and is illustrated there on page 445. The only known P2141 is in the BM and confirmed from the same dies.

The following lot in the Adams sale (193) was the plain edge version also in tin and confirmed by analysis.

The 1887 dated pieces by Weyl also exist in tin in both milled and plain edge varieties. The two Nicholson "aluminium" examples (lots 388 & 389) are the halfpennies from these sets. The Colin Cooke sale lot 173 was the milled edge 1860 farthing. Thus there are a total of 15 confirmed new varieties including the 3 date 1887 pieces struck in lead. The other 6 pieces not confirmed by me and making up the corresponding sets can be presumed to exist.

The obverse:

And reverse:

When you say "3 date 1887 pieces in lead" I know you mean they have three dates but do you also mean there is more than one of them and if so are they part of your collection?

[Rob 3,228]

A pattern penny attributed to Adolf Weyl at the end of the 1800's. Struck in Tin, this metal wasn't recorded by either Peck or Freeman. Ex-Adams lot 192 with a milled edge, this was described as being in aluminium but the weight being over x3 too heavy for this metal led me to analyse the content. Interestingly, there is no added zinc to act as a scavenger thus preventing oxidation as s normally the case with tin. These pieces were made in sets of three; penny, halfpenny and farthing and the other two piece I can confirm exist because I have them. This piece illustrated was pictured, erroneously stated in Wilson & Rasmussen to be aluminium and is illustrated there on page 445. The only known P2141 is in the BM and confirmed from the same dies.

The following lot in the Adams sale (193) was the plain edge version also in tin and confirmed by analysis.

The 1887 dated pieces by Weyl also exist in tin in both milled and plain edge varieties. The two Nicholson "aluminium" examples (lots 388 & 389) are the halfpennies from these sets. The Colin Cooke sale lot 173 was the milled edge 1860 farthing. Thus there are a total of 15 confirmed new varieties including the 3 date 1887 pieces struck in lead. The other 6 pieces not confirmed by me and making up the corresponding sets can be presumed to exist.

The obverse:

And reverse:

When you say "3 date 1887 pieces in lead" I know you mean they have three dates but do you also mean there is more than one of them and if so are they part of your collection?

No, the 1887 pieces in lead with 3 dates appear to be unique.

[1887jubilee 37]

A pattern penny attributed to Adolf Weyl at the end of the 1800's. Struck in Tin, this metal wasn't recorded by either Peck or Freeman. Ex-Adams lot 192 with a milled edge, this was described as being in aluminium but the weight being over x3 too heavy for this metal led me to analyse the content. Interestingly, there is no added zinc to act as a scavenger thus preventing oxidation as s normally the case with tin. These pieces were made in sets of three; penny, halfpenny and farthing and the other two piece I can confirm exist because I have them. This piece illustrated was pictured, erroneously stated in Wilson & Rasmussen to be aluminium and is illustrated there on page 445. The only known P2141 is in the BM and confirmed from the same dies.

The following lot in the Adams sale (193) was the plain edge version also in tin and confirmed by analysis.

The 1887 dated pieces by Weyl also exist in tin in both milled and plain edge varieties. The two Nicholson "aluminium" examples (lots 388 & 389) are the halfpennies from these sets. The Colin Cooke sale lot 173 was the milled edge 1860 farthing. Thus there are a total of 15 confirmed new varieties including the 3 date 1887 pieces struck in lead. The other 6 pieces not confirmed by me and making up the corresponding sets can be presumed to exist.

The obverse:

And reverse:

When you say "3 date 1887 pieces in lead" I know you mean they have three dates but do you also mean there is more than one of them and if so are they part of your collection?

No, the 1887 pieces in lead with 3 dates appear to be unique.

Thank goodness I have got it then.

[1887jubilee 37]

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

Where did you get it?

Goldberg's Terner Sale of May, 2003. Hardly seems possible it was eight years ago.

Marv

..or that your reply took 4 and a half years

Can I have a go since it is well past the 2007 post. Rob will tell you I am an avid 1887 collector and have the P2193 ex Heritage 2007 and the Lead 3 date with "one or two others" ex Plymouth Auction Rooms 18/4/2008. I would like to have a chat about the 1887 coins. What would be the best way to communicate? I would be happy for Rob to give you my details.

[1887jubilee 37]

A pattern penny attributed to Adolf Weyl at the end of the 1800's. Struck in Tin, this metal wasn't recorded by either Peck or Freeman. Ex-Adams lot 192 with a milled edge, this was described as being in aluminium but the weight being over x3 too heavy for this metal led me to analyse the content. Interestingly, there is no added zinc to act as a scavenger thus preventing oxidation as s normally the case with tin. These pieces were made in sets of three; penny, halfpenny and farthing and the other two piece I can confirm exist because I have them. This piece illustrated was pictured, erroneously stated in Wilson & Rasmussen to be aluminium and is illustrated there on page 445. The only known P2141 is in the BM and confirmed from the same dies.

The following lot in the Adams sale (193) was the plain edge version also in tin and confirmed by analysis.

The 1887 dated pieces by Weyl also exist in tin in both milled and plain edge varieties. The two Nicholson "aluminium" examples (lots 388 & 389) are the halfpennies from these sets. The Colin Cooke sale lot 173 was the milled edge 1860 farthing. Thus there are a total of 15 confirmed new varieties including the 3 date 1887 pieces struck in lead. The other 6 pieces not confirmed by me and making up the corresponding sets can be presumed to exist.

The obverse:

And reverse:

I like the Weyl patterns also. I have the half penny P-2192 in FDC (Gem MS66).

Can I have a go since it is well past the 2007 post. Rob will tell you I am an avid 1887 collector and have the P2193 ex Heritage 2007 and the Lead 3 date with "one or two others" ex Plymouth Auction Rooms 18/4/2008. I would like to have a chat about the 1887 coins. What would be the best way to communicate? I would be happy for Rob to give you my details. see my attachment below