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And now at 770. Nice coin but NOT unc.or even AU in my opinion. These buns are getting crazy!Seller quotes price of 1850 pounds in Spink 2010, but in unc.

Finished at £828

David

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Am I reading this right. He's not selling the coins just a list of them

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Am I reading this right. He's not selling the coins just a list of them

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You are correct Gary, he's selling his LIST of what he has

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And now at 770. Nice coin but NOT unc.or even AU in my opinion. These buns are getting crazy!Seller quotes price of 1850 pounds in Spink 2010, but in unc.

Finished at £828

David

No last minute bidding there then. It was at £828 for quite some time before the auction ended.

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I appreciate I'm new here, although not to collecting, but couldn't help noticing a dealer (Martin Platt) getting a particularly hard time in an earlier post. I know nothing of him except that I recently purchased the following item: 1925 Halfcrown

Dipped, quite probably, but I was more than happy. I really don't think I overpaid and the service was excellent. Just my twopence worth.

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Dipped, quite probably, but I was more than happy. I really don't think I overpaid and the service was excellent. Just my twopence worth.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and yours is as valuable as anyone else's. I know I have purchased off Martin in the past and the service was great, I have personally had no problems.

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I appreciate I'm new here, although not to collecting, but couldn't help noticing a dealer (Martin Platt) getting a particularly hard time in an earlier post. I know nothing of him except that I recently purchased the following item: 1925 Halfcrown

Dipped, quite probably, but I was more than happy. I really don't think I overpaid and the service was excellent. Just my twopence worth.

And quite a lot of wear for an EF. Let me just say something on this subject, i was speaking to a guy who regularly buys from Martin and recently he sent 5 coins back due to them being cleaned, he got a full refund and 130 quid extra to keep sthum.

Says a little bit more of the man, obviously he's trying to keep his slate (feedback) CLEAN. Unfortunately when he tells people a coin is an AU you should take that with a pinch of salt. Look at the 1869 he sold, he said it was AU, book price in UNC 3000GBP in the grade he actually bought it at EF 1250GBP, so effectively he's ripped someone off for a grand, would you be happy with that if it was your cash? I don't condone his blatant fraud, because for that amount of cash, this is what it amounts to.

If he clearly stated what the coin actually was and see where it went then i'd say fair enough, but this guy is just getting plain greedy. Accumulator, you spent 50 quid, how would you feel if you had been reading these boards and had spent the best part of 2500 GBP on a coin that was no more than EF, i bet you'd be on the phone asking for a large chunk of that cash back, am sure as hell i would be.

At least he didn't wear a mask, but he should do... :ph34r:

Edited by azda

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Let me just say something on this subject, i was speaking to a guy who regularly buys from Martin and recently he sent 5 coins back due to them being cleaned, he got a full refund and 130 quid extra to keep sthum.

Says a little bit more of the man

I would not be willing to publicly slate someone on the back of something "someone" told me. Personal experience is a completely different scenario.

If a wrong is being done, I am not condoning it, but as with anyone's grading there is the potential for a difference of opinion, and offering a full refund would seem an acceptable solution in the circumstances, it does not necessarily imply bad practise.

Many people buy from people then sell on for more, that is in simple terms what coin dealing is, and there is nothing wrong in that if it is handled correctly.

If you at the time as a seller were satisfied with the price you got for an item, why should you then be annoyed if the person you sold them to got more for the item.

If you had asked him what they were worth and he made you an offer then sold them for substantially more, I could understand the annoyance, and this in my mind is a completely different scenario.

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Let me just say something on this subject, i was speaking to a guy who regularly buys from Martin and recently he sent 5 coins back due to them being cleaned, he got a full refund and 130 quid extra to keep sthum.

Says a little bit more of the man

I would not be willing to publicly slate someone on the back of something "someone" told me. Personal experience is a completely different scenario.

If a wrong is being done, I am not condoning it, but as with anyone's grading there is the potential for a difference of opinion, and offering a full refund would seem an acceptable solution in the circumstances, it does not necessarily imply bad practise.

Many people buy from people then sell on for more, that is in simple terms what coin dealing is, and there is nothing wrong in that if it is handled correctly.

If you at the time as a seller were satisfied with the price you got for an item, why should you then be annoyed if the person you sold them to got more for the item.

If you had asked him what they were worth and he made you an offer then sold them for substantially more, I could understand the annoyance, and this in my mind is a completely different scenario.

I would suggest that London Coins has perhaps handled a lot more coins than Martin, Colin. Perhaps their grading standards have slipped 2 grades recently for Martin to up it by the said grades? Or is someone seeing the dollar signs. As i said, if i came round to your house and took a grand from your wallet i'm sure you wouldn't be pleased. He knew the grade of the 1869 and gave it another for profit, its in B&W Colin.

So let me adjust this text a little. There's a few dealers amoungst us, so hands up all those dealers who've cleaned and overgraded a coin to make profit? Colin, we're talking about 1000GBP, not 10 or 20 quid, there's a helluva difference and if i defrauded someone of a grand and that person found out that i'd done so, say a bank or the DHSS even, what happens? These people that defraud the Government that are on Unemployment, do you think they just get a good feedback? No, they get a criminal record. I can't understand why some people are overlooking this fact just because he has a good feedback on ebay, its ridiculous.

Edited by azda

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Dave,

I am not trying to argue about this, just trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I have not seen anything shown yet in black and white that implies that underhand dealings have taken place. If they are made available I will change my opinion but at the moment I speak as I find, and that is why I gave my personal opinion :)

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Dave,

I am not trying to argue about this, just trying to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I have not seen anything shown yet in black and white that implies that underhand dealings have taken place. If they are made available I will change my opinion but at the moment I speak as I find, and that is why I gave my personal opinion :)

London coins lot 1574 september, then check the 1869 penny he sold Colin, exact same one. The the wreath Crown i listed in here a few posts back, then his cleaned UNC he just sold, a few posts back to.

Sorry to be on a tangent also, but take a look at London coins September sales lot 1574. There's a die crack on the REV of both coins in the same place. The wreath crown and the cleaned same one is at the top and next post down of this page

Anyhow, i'll get of the subject now before i spit my dummy out again :lol:

Edited by azda

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As I say, I have no axe to grind here but likewise, I speak as I find from personal experience.

If a willing seller sells to a dealer and then that dealer finds a willing buyer for the same coin then that's fair trade in my book. Seller, dealer and buyer are all happy. Grading is always subjective and anyone buying should form their own opinion, whether or not the dealer has suggested a grade or otherwise. I can't see why you would assume a money back offer is "hush money". Again, only my opinion.

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As I say, I have no axe to grind here but likewise, I speak as I find from personal experience.

If a willing seller sells to a dealer and then that dealer finds a willing buyer for the same coin then that's fair trade in my book. Seller, dealer and buyer are all happy. Grading is always subjective and anyone buying should form their own opinion, whether or not the dealer has suggested a grade or otherwise. I can't see why you would assume a money back offer is "hush money". Again, only my opinion.

Money back PLUS 130 quid OVER what he paid, what would you call it? 5 Negatives would be a dent, no? He actaully has a negative feedback for overgrading, but to far back for you to see. The other problem to your Dealer/buyer/buyer/dealer scenario accumulator is what if the buyer is quite a newbie? I see by your feedback that you have over a thousnad score, so not so wet behind the ears. How long have you been collecting?

Edited by azda

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You can use this site to check feedback going right back, it sifts out the neutrals and negatives :D

http://toolhaus.org/

I still don't agree with your perspective on things, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I do agree that the dipping should have been highlighted to sellers. I still don't see an issue with the London Coins scenario, London Coin's grade is just their opinion.

You will find coins that sell at different auction houses getting different grades, it does not mean that one is being underhand, it is just differing opinion. It is only if it is being done intentionally to deceive that it is wrong.

I wouldn't anticipate many newbies buying a £2,500 coin on ebay anyway, and certainly would not recommend them to do so, I would not buy a £2,500 stamp off ebay because I know nothing about them and therefore it would be a very foolish move :D

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You can use this site to check feedback going right back, it sifts out the neutrals and negatives :D

http://toolhaus.org/

I still don't agree with your perspective on things, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I do agree that the dipping should have been highlighted to sellers. I still don't see an issue with the London Coins scenario, London Coin's grade is just their opinion.

You will find coins that sell at different auction houses getting different grades, it does not mean that one is being underhand, it is just differing opinion. It is only if it is being done intentionally to deceive that it is wrong.

I wouldn't anticipate many newbies buying a £2,500 coin on ebay anyway, and certainly would not recommend them to do so, I would not buy a £2,500 stamp off ebay because I know nothing about them and therefore it would be a very foolish move :D

Very true Colin, and the 1903 Halfcrown he sold in CRISP UNC (THE FINEST WE'VE EVER SEEN)lol, also various people on the forum have also said the 1869 was EF, but again, everyone elses opinion vary, although Martins usually disagree going up the scale, never down. Curiously enough 3 Halfcrowns he sold on Sunday there he has been left a feedback for, yet nothing yet for the 1903 or 1869 <_<

Is this one cleaned Colin?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1835-WILLIAM-IV-SHILLING-RARE-PRACTICALLY-UNC-/230545913401?pt=UK_Coins_BritishMilled_RL&hash=item35ad9b7639

Edited by azda

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Christ Dave, I hope you never spot me selling an overgraded coin :P

The 1925 Halfcrown that Accumulator bought was a snip at that price, even if it had been in the bath!

I have "helped" coins in the past and would do again. Ammonia solution lifts all manner of crap from silver and leaves the toning alone, provided that there is no mechanical cleaning as well. That method is virtually undetectable and leaves a black coin black. I have not dipped, polished or whizzed coins and never would as all of those methods are clearly obvious to all but an idiot and ruin the coin in my opinion. Nor have I ever even attempted to "help" copper or bronze.

The coins that I have washed in ammonia were not sold as being cleaned, does that make me dishonest?

As Colin has said, grading is very subjective and open to interpretation. Auction houses are by no means experts, not even (in some cases especially) the speciallist coin auction houses. I had always found London Coins to be grossly overgraded. They seem to be a bit tighter now, but (AGAIN MY OPINION ONLY) still tend to be over optimistic.

The problem is £signs :blink::blink::blink:

Those of us that make our living selling coins have to choose a path and the choice is pretty tough;

You are either honest and scrape a living or you are "economical with the truth" and make a decent a living.

I try to be the former and rely on repeat business from happy buyers, but that's the way I was programmed at birth, hence my 13 year tenure upholding the Queens peace!

If other sellers wear rose tinted spectacles when "helping" coins and grading them to sell on, then that's their perogative. Let them get on with it and vote with your feet.

That's my Pennies (pardon the pun) worth :D

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I agree with everything you say John, my only gripe is this huge profit from not just the 1869 but the 1903 HC. Its a hell of a lot of money to lose and not many have that sort os cash lying around (apart from dealers that is) ;) As i keep banging on about is what could amount to fraud, the 1903 was described as UNC, everyman and his dog could see it was nowhere near that grade.

You were an ex copper John, am sure you boys have prosecuted for less cash, its his dishonest grading that makes me sick, ok fair enough people do have their own opinions, and we do air them on places like this, for me someone who calls themselves a dealer as he does should be a little more honest in his description, if its rare it will sell, it will find its value, but when you stick an extra grade on a rare coin then your bait is gonna take a bite.

Thats what pisses me off, not that he's selling rare cons, but he should be more truthful about the coin and its grading instead of looking at huge fat profits at the expense of other people. I've stated this before, but those poor b*****ds that have maybe pumped some of their savings from retirement funds will be hoping for a profit from these coins in say 5 years or so, what would people say in 5 years if he's actually made a loss in those 5 years because certainly that HC will take quite a few years to come up to the price whoever has purchased the CRISP UNC blah blah blah BS.

On that note, i noticed no feedback has been left for that yet or the 1869, but 3 from his Sunday auction has already had feedback left.

Again, rip off Britain, bend over and take it in the a**e and keep a stiff upper lip even though you were just stiffed for a grand lol. Anyway, i hope ya all are getting what am saying, even though 95% of you will think am just a raving lunatic, i'm not, i dislike greed and have a passion for coins, simples :huh:

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Hi Azda, I don't think the 1000+ e-bay score is me, mine is only in the low hundreds. I've been collecting all sorts of things over many years, from cars through clocks to fruit machines and coins. So there's no discernible pattern, even to me! Interest has waned and returned but recent rises in gold prompted me to get my coins out again.

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I agree with everything you say John, my only gripe is this huge profit from not just the 1869 but the 1903 HC. Its a hell of a lot of money to lose and not many have that sort os cash lying around (apart from dealers that is) ;) As i keep banging on about is what could amount to fraud, the 1903 was described as UNC, everyman and his dog could see it was nowhere near that grade.

You were an ex copper John, am sure you boys have prosecuted for less cash, its his dishonest grading that makes me sick, ok fair enough people do have their own opinions, and we do air them on places like this, for me someone who calls themselves a dealer as he does should be a little more honest in his description, if its rare it will sell, it will find its value, but when you stick an extra grade on a rare coin then your bait is gonna take a bite.

Thats what pisses me off, not that he's selling rare cons, but he should be more truthful about the coin and its grading instead of looking at huge fat profits at the expense of other people. I've stated this before, but those poor b*****ds that have maybe pumped some of their savings from retirement funds will be hoping for a profit from these coins in say 5 years or so, what would people say in 5 years if he's actually made a loss in those 5 years because certainly that HC will take quite a few years to come up to the price whoever has purchased the CRISP UNC blah blah blah BS.

On that note, i noticed no feedback has been left for that yet or the 1869, but 3 from his Sunday auction has already had feedback left.

Again, rip off Britain, bend over and take it in the a**e and keep a stiff upper lip even though you were just stiffed for a grand lol. Anyway, i hope ya all are getting what am saying, even though 95% of you will think am just a raving lunatic, i'm not, i dislike greed and have a passion for coins, simples :huh:

I worked predominantly armed response on traffic Dave, which meant I left all that shit to the CID shiney arses :)

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Ah yes sorry accumulator, Ure id has an s amd S in with a 114 Feedback score, was looking at the wrong coin. Tin helmets Ladies, john has a Gun, bet that was a stressful number John, much respect.

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Blimey he must have rattled you :D

I must remember never to sell you a dodgy looking coin. Thank God you collect pennies :D

Edited by Colin G.

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I appreciate I'm new here, although not to collecting, but couldn't help noticing a dealer (Martin Platt) getting a particularly hard time in an earlier post. I know nothing of him except that I recently purchased the following item: 1925 Halfcrown

Dipped, quite probably, but I was more than happy. I really don't think I overpaid and the service was excellent. Just my twopence worth.

Oh dear. Let me be the one to break this to you Accumulator : if that halfcrown had been anywhere near the EF he claimed it to be, do you think you would have won it for fifty quid? I'm not saying you paid an unfair price, but considering it HAS been cleaned, and is around VF, you probably paid a FAIR price for it, without getting a bargain.

As with all transactions caveat emptor. I've not bought anything off MP but after seeing what I've been pointed at in this forum, I'm not likely to.

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Wow,

the W4 shilling cleaned most definately.

I have bought a few from MP, but as has been said, Caveat emptor!

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He hasn't Rattled me Colin, i'm trying to point out obvious facts that He manipulates nearly every single coin he has, and the WiIII shilling is just one of those.

That coin is dead, no tone, No shine and has the look of a rock, so he's manipulating for profit. I Wish some People would Waken up. I Must remember to sell some of u People the mini, i mean Ferrari i have Sitting here

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Oh dear. Let me be the one to break this to you Accumulator...... [snip] .....you probably paid a FAIR price for it...

And your point is?

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